Single trigger SXS

[Dagnabbit]

Looking at the different single triggerd SXSs out there.
SKB - is reset to other chamber by recoil. Told that with a soft hold and lite load they may not reset to other chamber. also heard there stock splits ar reciever.
SKB + is lightweight, nice sight picture down BBL. Selector for BBLs and fast trigger time....

Baikal/Rem. - Mechanical trigger reset is depending on tiny spring loaded fork that can malfuntion and is cheeply made. Big hourglass extractor to have to load past.
Baikal + Reciever and Barrel lug/action is strong. Medium weight.  Parts availiable.

Stoeger - Weaker locking lugs at piviot pin. Stoegers seam to recoil harder to my shoulder but do fit me good.
Stoeger + Single trigger mechanisum is mechanicaly reset for other BBL with a robust tilting block and is very dependable.
 Medium weight. Parts available


This is just what I know... what can you tell me as I would like to try a new SXS with the single trigger. Thanks

[Silver Creek Slim]

I have two single trigger SXS shotguns. Will not get another one. Both of them like to fire both barrels. The 12 ga Baikal isn't too bad when it doubles but the Zabala 10 ga really wakes ya up. 

Slim

[WaddWatsonEllis]

Okay Fellas, if you have heard this before, just move on past this post.

I have a single trigger Baikal that I dearly love. I have even shot skeet with it ... and when the first SASS target pops up a clay pigeon, it is the only gun that I regularly hit the clay before it hits the ground ....

But ... and its a big  but ...

Last August, the gun started acting funny. My gunsmith and I thought that it just meant honing out the cylinders at the breech a bit so that the spent shells would tumble out easier, and polishing up the spring housings to make the gun open wider and more smoothly.

When my 'smith opened up the gun, he found that the springs had been 'butchered' (his words), and the seers filed down to where the gun would occaisionally 1.) fire both barrels at once, or 2.) fire neither barrel.

So my 'smith ordered new seers for the single barrel Bounty Hunter from EAA.

Three times.

Each time he was told that the previous person did not understand the problem (as the current customer service person did), and the present customer service (?) person would send the right parts.

Three times the wrong seers were sent.

When I tried to call them I reached a 'cue line' of about 7 cues (if you have a hangnail, press 7...). When I did reach a real person, I was told to have my 'smith call and arrange to get the parts shipped.

My 'smith has given up on EAA entirely, and is having a friend tig weld some very hard steel to the end of the seer and will file it down himself.

BTW, when I tried to get help from Remington; even tho' I had the same gun as their Remington 220, as soon as I mentioned Baikal, I was given the EAA 800 number (remember the 'cue line'?) and was assured by Remington's customer service that I should call EAA to remedy the problem .... I felt like a hot potatoe that the customer service person could not wait to get off his hands ... I kinda feel like everyone is standing in a circle and pointing left, saying, 'It's their fault ...'

So when you said 'parts available', I thought you might like to have my experiences ...

IMHO, were I to buy a new one, it would be a Remington, with Remington's support system. EAA does not seem to be worth the powder to erase them ... at least for a weapon that they do not sell.

[Advertising]

[St. George]

Your 'best' bet might be to look for older, American-built SXS's.

Parts abound for the better models and they seem to show up on Gunbroker all the time.

Also - during the warmer months, they'll be priced lower at local gun shows - rising as hunting season approaches.

The problem may lie in locating hammered SXS's.

Often, when a larger company is trying to satisfy the perceived needs of a smaller market - they sub-contract the work out, since the start-up and tooling are more expensive than they're worth, when someone's already making an acceptable product.

This was the case with Remington and even Colt, when they first started up the Second Generation percussion revolvers.

The parent company has few, if any parts on-hand - referring customers to the importers they get the weapons from.

I'd offer that the 'parts guy' at EAA isn't a 'gunsmith' (they never are) and he's just going with what the parts schematic says.

One of the big problems with these guns is that they were designed for 'hunting' and nothing more rigorous, and 'competition' and 'practice' are taking a greater toll on their metallurgy than originally planned, and artificially aging them.

Maybe they'll learn from this, and harden things for a longer life, and everyone will benefit.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Dagnabbit]

Thanks pards, Anyone have any experiance with the SKB or any other older brands that have been good for you.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Thanks pards, Anyone have any experiance with the SKB or any other older brands that have been good for you.

Howdy

It ain't a SXS, but my Weatherby Orion O/U trap gun was actually made by SKB. It is a single trigger gun and a couple of years ago the second barrel started getting a little bit reluctant to fire. On taking it apart I discovered that the little spring loaded pendulum that actually controls the setting mechanism had worn enough that it was not resetting for the second shot. I filed on it a bit, and stretched the little spring that operates it, and it is working better now, but it is really only a temporary fix. I bought the gun used, and shooting Trap every week I probably actually put more rounds through it than any CAS gun. Much more than your average hunting gun.

My point is, single trigger guns have more complicated mechanisms than double trigger guns, and can be more troublesome because they are more complicated. More parts to wear out and break down. Double trigger guns are much simpler, just two completely separate mechanisms, much less likely to wear out or break down. I have four double trigger SXS guns for CAS, I wouldn't dream of buying a single trigger gun.

[Dagnabbit]

Thats the name of the game ...... reliability.
But I own 3 double triggerd SXSs 2 hammerless and 1 mule eared 78.  I'd like to find out what may be said should be "the better" make single triggered gun and see what she'll do,

[Jefro]

The SKB and BSS is one of the most sought after single trigger SXS for this game. Many a top shooter uses the SKB, some wth action work by Dirt Merchant. He can be contacted through the SASS wire. One common modification besides an action job is an over sized forearm or leather cover. Another well known SXS smith is Goatneck Clem. Good Luck.

Jefro

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  I bought a 12 ga. SXS hammerless years ago when I was about thirteen, I bought it from our local gun shop, which was also a gunsmith, this gun would fire both barrels at the same time, and also when taking the safety off, I took it back, and he did some work on it, he said the firing pins were too long, took it out and the safety worked but it still shot both barrels at the same time with just one pull of the trigger, so I gave it back to him and got my money back, I'll never buy another single trigger SXS again, I'm sure there are SXS's that don't have this problem, but my smith told me that this type mechanism, was prone to this problem.

         tEN wOLVES 

[doubs43]

I've owned single trigger SxS shotguns but quickly realized that I preferred double triggers. Everything was fine so long as the selected barrel had the needed choke but if switching chokes became necessary - always in a hurry it seemed - I found it much quicker to select the needed trigger than it was to change the selector. I presently own three SxS shotguns and all three have double triggers.

While I've never owned a single trigger Baikal SxS, I've owned 3 or 4 single trigger O/U Baikals and they've been as reliable as the day is long. The first one I bought had two sets of barrels for skeet and trap and I put at least 6,000 shells through the gun without a single malfunction. It was an IJ-27E and the one O/U Baikal that I still own is the same model and is just as reliable.

I've stripped down both SxS and O/U Baikals for cleaning and there is nothing flimsy or weak about the design. Everything is robust and solid. Unless Remington changed the specs, I'd have to believe that the Remington/Baikal shotguns are just as strong and reliable as the ones I've owned.

[WaddWatsonEllis]

doubs43,

I got to have a bit of a chat with my 'smith during the SASS shoot on Sunday ... he is a officer of the club and acts as an RO on most weekends.

The problem with the seers was not Baikals; someone who owned the gun before me had made the seers so thin that the edge of them just wore over like a knuckle joint on your finger ... The problem with the parts was EAA's problem ... according again to my 'smith, they sent the seers for the twin trigger SXS (or some other shotgun) THREE TIMES!

So a welder friend of his is TIG welding drill metal to the front of the seer, and my 'smith says that he will file them to the final shape and hopefully that will be the end of the problem ... although I have been told by others that there is a selector Y part that also fails and allows one, both or none of the barrels to fire .... so we shall see.

I am really fond of the old Baikal. I also own a Cap Coyote Model 87 that I now use exclusively for shoots. But when the Shotgun part has those poppers (where shooting down the shotgun target launches a clay bird), I usually get the Model 87 cocked and ready to fire about the time the bird shatters on the ground ... I know, I know; practice!

[doubs43]

Drill bit metal should be fine and work beautifully in your Baikal.

Back in the early-mid 1980's I had two SxS Baikal shotguns; a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge. Both were double trigger models and I shot them quite well. I once went 49 of 50 clays on the skeet range with the 20. I sold both before returning to the States. As I recall, every Baikal shotgun I bought - 5 or 6 total - came with spare firing pins and springs. I still have the set for my IJ-27E O/U.

Your gunsmith's experience with EAA doesn't sound encouraging at all. The importer of a firearm should also buy a repair parts package from the manufacturer to cover any eventuality. The Baikal importer in England was located in Colchester and your gunsmith may have better luck getting parts from them. It may be worth a try.

I have one of the early Norinco/IAC 1897 Trench Gun clones and it's been very good so far. I've been considering the Baikal hammer gun biu8t haven't quite made up my mind just yet. I need to sleep on it a bit more.

That Cap Coyote 87 you have looks really nice. I saw the picture you posted in another thread.

doubs43,

I got to have a bit of a chat with my 'smith during the SASS shoot on Sunday ... he is a officer of the club and acts as an RO on most weekends.

The problem with the seers was not Baikals; someone who owned the gun before me had made the seers so thin that the edge of them just wore over like a knuckle joint on your finger ... The problem with the parts was EAA's problem ... according again to my 'smith, they sent the seers for the twin trigger SXS (or some other shotgun) THREE TIMES!

So a welder friend of his is TIG welding drill metal to the front of the seer, and my 'smith says that he will file them to the final shape and hopefully that will be the end of the problem ... although I have been told by others that there is a selector Y part that also fails and allows one, both or none of the barrels to fire .... so we shall see.

I am really fond of the old Baikal. I also own a Cap Coyote Model 87 that I now use exclusively for shoots. But when the Shotgun part has those poppers (where shooting down the shotgun target launches a clay bird), I usually get the Model 87 cocked and ready to fire about the time the bird shatters on the ground ... I know, I know; practice!

[WaddWatsonEllis]

doubs43,

The 'problem' gets curioser and curioser ... talk to Baikal and they will say they were unhappy with EAA. Talk to EAA and they will say that Baikal wanted a 30% increase in the cost of their guns (gee, sounds just like what I would do if I was unhappy with a supplier andwanted to break a contract ...).

At any rate, EAA no longer imports the Baikal IZH 43 .... or any Baikal product but a pistol that I have seen.  The Baikal Bounty Hunter is now the Remington 220 ... but call Remington and they will give you the EAA 800 # and get off the phone as quick as possible.  Then when you get EAA, you go through seven (Count them, SEVEN) cues (i.e. if you have a hangnail, press nine) before you reach a human being  ... and then they will send you the wrong part.

I even tried to call Baikal/Canada, and got much better service. The rep said that the translation from Russian to English in the manual was rough, and to give her a part number from the exploded schematic and she would see if she had the part ....

BTW, this seven cue system is not a product of Baikals being dropped. Service was this poor when I was still trying to fix the gun myself (and when EAA still imported the shotguns).

So July 2010 will make a year my 'smith has had the gun ... and EAA still is the wienie of gun importers ... IMHO ...

Moral of this story ... Baikal is a good gun with a bad supply system.

Reminds me of the poem about the

'girl with the little curl right in the middle of her forehead ,,,

that when she was good she was very good,

but when she was bad she was horrid' ...

[WaddWatsonEllis]

doubs43,

The Cap Coyote gun is a nice weapon but has its quirks.

The first is that you have to lever it like you are trying to break off the lever to get the expended shell to go out of the gun; too light, and the shell turns 90 degrees and the back of the chamber (on this gun part of the lever) traps the brass part of the shotgun shell between the back of the chamber and the chamber with the plastic part sticking straight up out of the gun ...

The second thing is that loading the first and second shell takes a bit of practice to get it to work ... and I should but do not practice enough ...