Gunsmith schools

[Willie Dixon]

Hi all,

I was wondering if any of you had experience with either:
Yavapai College Gunsmithing School
http://www.gunsmithing.org/
or
Lassen College Gunsmithing School
http://www.lassengunsmithing.com/

basically any rumors, thoughts, or any other general advice on these schools.  I would really like to become a professional gunsmith and these two schools are the closest to my area.

my biggest concerns are reputation and cost of attendance, since I would be opening my own gunsmith store and website following school.

I have access to VA benefits and Financial Aid, it's just that looking at the two schools,
Lassen looks very affordable (I am a CA resident and have the Fee Waiver already), but they require ownership of about 30 or so guns, some of which I would never want!
Yavapai looks costly in a way (out of state fees) but they don't have a requirement on guns owned, and is more custom shop based.

Basically I was hoping I could call on my new friends here on CASCity for some advice in this, seeing as it's a very target group, one that I'd want to cater to! 

also, feel free to e-mail me if you have negative comments about both or either, so as not to mar them here on the forums.  But I would like the God's Honest Truth about these schools.  If you think I should just get an "apprenticeship" with Lee's Gunsmithing which is only 10 minutes away or something like that, please tell me.

thanks

[Dalton Masterson]

I think any time you can get hands on apprenticeship work, you should go for it. I learn best by doing, not by schoolwork. Thats not saying schoolwork is bad, but I have several college years under my belt, that really didnt help me much other than in the social sense.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Company/links.aspx?catid=8
Heres another link to more schools. I hear that the Colorado school is good, but have no personal knowledge.
DM

[Willie Dixon]

thanks,

the classes at those schools are actually 3 hours "lecture" and then 10 hours of lab per week!
so it's hands-on, but yeah, I'm still debating about the whole "moving" thing.  and tell me about college, jeesh, tell me about it.  I just go for the enjoyment of learning.  It hasn't done, nor will it do anything but guarantee a cubicle in a rat-race job no matter what major.... why I'm applying for the USMS and local SDs... it's still drama and rat race, but hey, it isn't a cubicle!

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[Wolfgang]

I've always heard good about the Colorado school and it has been around a long time.  A lot of gunsmiths are specialists.  Get yourself a drill press, laithe, and milling machine. . . start working on the guns you have and like to tinker with.

 Always best to do what you want to do.  Sitting around dreaming about some day doing what you want is how a lot of people waste their life.  If you don't DO IT . . you'll never know what would have happened.  It's worked for me. 

Good shootin' , . . . & tinkerin' with guns . . . . 

[Willie Dixon]

Thanks Wolfgang,
just right now, I kinda have to dream and plan, seeing as the schools only start in the fall.  But I see that as a blessing, gives me time for research on them all.  The Colorado school looks really good, but grants are out, only loans.  And I'm Out-of-state tuition prices.  That and they don't have dorms and meal plans like Yavapai and Lassen.
so far, right now, it looks like:
Yavapai
Colorado School of Trades
Lassen

basically what I've seen is Yavapai has housing, and meal plans, same as Lassen.  EXCEPT that CST and Lassen seem to specialize in repair work and being a "gunsmith." Whereas Yavapai says that's exactly what they aren't.  They teach you how to do repairs, which is probably the bread and butter, but they also teach custom work, and how to open up shop yourself, that just seems a little better for what I would want.  Also, Lassen requires you to own like 30 some-odd guns, ouch.  After I'm done, sure I can sell 27 out of the 30 I don't want, but seriously, that's a lot of dough out front.

I've contacted Lassen, Yavapai, and CST about getting general info packets, and I've already applied to Yavapai, since they have a pretty in-depth process.

I dunno, this just sounds like a great "day job" something that is artistic and enjoyable, where I can enjoy other things as well.

[Dalton Masterson]

What guns are they requiring? Is it specific in nature, or can you get auction price guns at your local auction?
DM

[Modoc]

Willie,

I haven't been through the Lassen school, but my dad and a couple of other smiths that I know have been through the program.  I know that I stole his notes and use them quite a bit for my own smithing projects .  At the time that he took some of the classes, one of the instructors was the west coast repair for Colt (teaching 1911's).  One of the other smiths that I know was working for Weatherby in Atascadero the last time that I saw him.  One of my HS buddies went to Colorado and it sounded like they ended up buying a fair number of projects as they went along too.

One thought would be to prowl the gun shows and pawn shops looking for projects, I also saw a local student place a want-ad in the local sales rag looking for project guns.

What part of the Golden State are you in?  Have you had a chance to visit Susanville?  It is a nice place in the NORTHERN High Desert with all that it entails.  They also have a CAS group locally with a couple other groups within a couple hours of driving.

One of these days, I plan on taking some of their short courses during the summer (Like Cowboy rifle )

[Willie Dixon]

no, pretty specific.
here, copy and pasted from their website on first year weapons required:
http://www.lassengunsmithing.com/guidebook/guns-needed-first-year.html
GUNS NEEDED: (1st Year – Freshman)

    * Remington 700, Howa or old Savage 110 (Safety breech)
    * Mauser ’98, Ruger, Post ’64 Winchester 70 or new Savage (Flat breech)
    * Enfield P17, Springfield 03A3, Pre ’64 Win. 70 or 70 Classic (Cone breech)
    * 1 semi-inletted composite stock to inlet for any of the above actions
    * 1 semi-inletted wood stock to inlet for any of the above actions
    * 1 barrel blank
    * 2 pre-turned barrels
    * At least 8 guns of any type for: Sight Installation, Recoil Pad and Sling Swivel Installation, Bluing, Parkerizing, Alternative Metal Finishing and Color Case Hardening

I mean seriously, I don't want any of those guns!! and on top of that, the other 8, that's all I'd need for CAS!!! I'm a broke college student!  I can't afford what?  12-20 guns on the first year!!!

I live in Orange County, near the freeway complex fires, basically.  The Prescott school, their range... it's actually the range used by the local SASS group! So, I'll be fine there too.  I e-mailed them for a list of guns needed.  I'm hoping, drastically, that since they are "custom" specialized, they'll let me "customize" my list of guns.  Basically a happy lever action rifle, if needed a SA rifle, a 1911, a SAArmy (either Remington 75 or Colt 73), my Stoeger, and my 58 Remmies... heheh, but that's hoping.  I have the 1911s and the Springfield M1A1, so I only would need the CAS Guns!  I just don't like the idea of the drama involved with all those other guns.

thanks for the help everybody.

also, purchasing project guns along the way, that's understandable.  But that many right out the get go, ouch.  Just yeah, ouch!

also, Yavapai has gun engraving as an optional elective... from a master guild board member as the teacher... that always goes nicely with out happy guns.

[Dalton Masterson]

Willlie, looking at your list there, I would go for the early savage, the 98 Mauser, and the Enfield. At our local shows, these all bring a reasonable price (300 or less) for beater guns. The 98 can be had for 150 or so, if you buy one of the recent milsurp versions. The Enfield can be found, but will probably be a sporter rifle already, so that may not be a viable option for them. Thats our local area tho, with low population and an abundance of guns.
The ones for the sight installation, finish etc? I would find all the cheap 22s I could. I picked up a nice Mossberg 22 for less than 50 at an auction a little bit back. I know there are more like that out there.
Good luck.

DM

[Willie Dixon]

cool.
thanks for the help.
I'll be keeping updated on this too, as the schools pan out or not.

[WhiteDingo]

Willie,

I'm currently attending the Yavapai College School of Gunsmithing (2nd semester), so I'd be happy to offer some insight into the program if that's what you're looking for.

2 of the current instructors here went through this same program some 15 years ago, at least. Both of them were broke college students at the time, and were able to complete everything they needed with 5 guns, or less. One of the cool parts about the YC program is that you're not required to own the firearms you work on; you just need to be able to work on them (beg, borrow, etc. Heck, alot of the other students are willing to lend guns).

If you'd like more detailed information about the classes (including engraving, I'm enrolled in that as well), please feel free to shoot me an e-mail (the_battousai@cox.net). Former CA resident myself, so I was in the same boat tuition wise (and there are options). Alan (the head instructor) is always up for showing potential students around the facility (I don't know if the website is updated, but we moved into a HUGE building just last year)

[Willie Dixon]

WhiteDingo,

thanks for the info!
I'm actually at NAU right now, and I'm planning on going to YC for the gunsmithing afterwards.

if I'm able to come down to the school do you mind showing me around?

[WhiteDingo]

I'd be happy to show you what we do, and how we do it; If you're interested in coming down you should probably shoot Alan an e-mail (alan.lohr@yc.edu) and let him know that you'd like to see the facilities, so he knows to expect you.

[Willie Dixon]

I actually did send him an e-mail once, never got a reply back...

[WhiteDingo]

I actually did send him an e-mail once, never got a reply back...

....Did you use the Alan_Lohr@yc.edu, or did you use Alan.Lohr@yc.edu? I accidentally listed the 2nd one, which is incorrect.

A quicker idea would be to call Rosie or Susie at the front desk at CTEC (the facility where GST is held); they should be able to set up an appointment for you, or at least let Alan know when you're coming. That's what I did when I drove out to visit the 1st time. Here's the # for CTEC: (928) 776-2002. You can also call Alan directly, but you'd probably have to leave a voicemail. Here's his # from the YC directory. (928) 776-2348

If there's anything else I can do to be of assistance, please let me know.

[Chief Guns]

i went to Colorado School of Trades back in 1994-1995 it was and still is one of the top schools you can ever find when it comes to gunsmithing. The instructors they emplay have to have many ears in the field on there own before they can even be considered for employment..  I am no long er in the field but what they taught me has been very beneficial in regards to fire arms. there are over 1600 different types that I can work on with out any problem. They give you a good basis of what ever area you want to go in to.

[concho]

I suggest you get a better job ! I was a mechanic , and worked my way threw school at age 36 because I wanted to be free of bosses who were ass holes , I graduated in 79 , I have bluing tanks 8x8x48 so I could do anything that came in , I have 2 milling machines ,a cincinniti tool & cutter grinder , challenger surface grinder, countless tools, reamers, and tools that I made for doing anything that came along , after graduating from gun school I went in a machine shop for apprentice machinist ,6 years later I received my papers , from that shop I went to several others and have 12 years tool making experience , as for making a living being a gunsmith with todays laws and the feds prying eyes ! you'll starve to death ! even the townships will give you trouble with licencing , inquire at the local township office about getting a gunsmithing licence and see the bullcrap they want you to obide too ! I had a person come to me and wanted a double barreled shotgun re blued ,checkering re cut , re finished stock , and barrels polished inside , I asked him ? what is it a Fox sterlingworth ? why he asked ? because you are looking a very handsome bill for all the work you want done , he told me that $ 12.50 was what he thought the cost would be for doing that job ! this is average for most of the idiots who want gun work done ! find another vocation is my openion !