Boots

[Will Sellit]

I have a couple questions on boots that I seem to get somewhat conflicting answers on in my research.

The first question is one or two piece fronts on boots. I always assumed that the two piece fronts were a more modern design and was not used in the 1870's and 1880's. It is hard to tell for sure from pictures as often chaps or pants are covering them. I was told by a custom boot maker that makes boots from the mid 1700 era on that two piece boots were made back that far. I have not found any pictures to support that.

Another question is the spur ledge on boots. Again, I thought this was a more modern design probably after the turn of the century but I have not been able to documnent when they were first used.

Any help on this is appreciated.

[Delmonico]

The spur ledge was on the Cuba (Koo-ba) type heel which came out in the middle 1860's.  Also the two piece, while not the most common type dates back to at least before the Civil War, I haven't researched it further back. 

Myself when I do middle 1880's or later I wear a rounder toed 2 piece boot because the type I wear made by Boolet is more cofertable.  Also wear them for everyday.  When I do earlier period I were the 1 piece front coffin toe boots.

[James Hunt]

The one piece front, or 3/4 vamp boots we know are common to the pre-CW, CW and early western frontier era are clearly correct with many images of such, that is until the 1880s when you started to see boots with the 1/4 front bottom quarter sewn in becoming increasingly seen, and by the turn of the century common. Others knowledgeable on the evolution of boots will way in regarding the beginning use of the later - perhaps very early.

However, I am well aware of images of CW era boots that do have the 1/4 front. So, they could be correct although the one piece front would seem to be far, far more common. All boots specified by the military up until the later part of our period were one piece front unless private purchase - per literature I have read describing specified construction. Be glad to provide sources if you need them. Not a boot guy but I have heard it suggested, although not seen it discussed in period literature, that such construction was more expensive and generally required additional payment for such a product. Start with Echos of Glory for supportive information on boot images from CW.

I have found no images suggestive of "spur shelves" in the 19th century, or even much of the 20th century. I have never read any period reference using the term spur shelf. Although you see them on boots sold by modern sutlers today, boots purporting to be "old west style" and even those designated as "cavalry boots" I submit that failing any evidence to the contrary they are absolutely incorrect - and by the way a solution to a non-existent problem. To the best of my knowledge they started to appear on modern "buckaroo boots" which have a higher larger heel than most other cowboy boots today. Although nifty looking as I even have a pair worn frequently out and about, stay away from spur shelves unless someone else can provide evidence I have yet to see.

Delmonico: you posted while I was writing this - Spur ledge on an 1860 boot with "cuban heels". Man, what is your source for that? Do you have any images? This is new information for me - sources, sources sources!!!! I would be truely interested. Was the term spur ledge used?

[Delmonico]

Can't lay my hands on the pictures with out some time, but there are several pictures I've looked at out of thousands where there is a spur ledge on working cowboys in the period.  The big problem is very few pictures show the back of a man enough to even look at the back of the boots.  Took me several years to find a picture that showed the back of the pants on some guys so I could show folks how the pants really should fit, since we know most guys left to their own devices will wear the pants to small.

I'll put this one in my notes to save a picture or two.  BTW the spur ledges are smaller than a lot of them you see today, my Boulet's are about right.

[ChuckBurrows]

The following link offers excellent info on the history of the western boot...
http://www.shoeinfonet.com/about%20shoes/history/history%20western%20boots/history%20western%20boots.htm

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Will.....
Boot Makers are making boots to sell (?)....If he says they date to that period...surely he has researched what he is making...have him show you first or second hand documentation to support it. If he wants to sell you a pair of boots badly enough, he'll be more then glad to oblige you. If the fella that wants to sell to you won't support his claim, let me know and I'll give you a source that will.

Bill

[James Hunt]

As Bill said above..., plus

If you are asking for a period boot maker who is proud enough of what they do to document their work an state so, I'd suggest the following:

The well known www.missouribootandshoe.com

My friend Brass tuned me on to www.robertlandhistoricshoes.com and I am very happy with my cavalry boots circa CW thru 1872.

And although I have no experience with him, you may wish to visit Carrico's recommendation www.snowcreekboots.com

You pay a little more and wait a little longer for all of these guy's, but you end up buying one pair of boots that are custom made, dead on period from a maker that will provide evidence for their existence in your time frame.

PS: don't ask for a spur shelf you'll get thrown out of the store. 

[Doc O]

Well I'm still a bit confused.
The boots I wear are a stove top, 2 peace front, scooped heel with a semi-rounded toe.
From reading [http://www.shoeinfonet.com/about%20shoes/history/history%20western%20boots/history%20western%20boots.htm], they should fit into the late 1870's or did I read it wrong.
I'll go back and read it again.
Would like to know just where they fit in.

Doc

Not trying to take over Will's post.

[Doc O]

I stand corrected. Mine are a 4 piece so they may come in after 1900.
May have to go to a Brogon.

Doc

[Will Sellit]

Thanks to all for the information.

I just had a long informative conversation with the fine folks at Missouri Boot and Shoe. All I need to do now is follow directions and take some measurements of my feet to get a new pair started.

Again thanks for your help.

[James Hunt]

Wise choice, you will have to wait a bit but you will own the best, wise choice.