My New Knife

Shotgun Steve · January 02, 2010, 07:12:46 PM

While surfing the net I came across this Spanish knife at a great price. So it is on its way to me.

It started out as a file 15 years ago. It has some file work and a sheeps horn handle.
I really like the looks of this blade. It will be a nice addition to my southwest gear.

Shotgun Steve

Forty Rod · January 02, 2010, 07:29:36 PM

You done good.

Kid Terico · January 02, 2010, 11:38:37 PM

SS that is a really nice knife and sheath. I,m just starting to put a collection together and wouldnt mind a piece like that. Very nice. KT

Dr. Bob · January 03, 2010, 12:57:09 AM

Mighty fine looking piece!!

WaddWatsonEllis · January 03, 2010, 04:26:23 AM

Steve,

The name for this kind of knife is a Belduque ... while researching for my persona as a Californio, I found that my Bowies would not be acceptable, and that I would need a Belduque with an 8 inch plus blade.

The longer Belduques were often tucked inside of the leather leggings (called Botas De Alas) that the Mexican and Californio would wear instead of chaps ....

I am including a painting of a group of Californios lassooing (sp?) a bear ... the Californio in the foreground has a Belduque tucked into his right Botas de Alas...

Best wishes and enjoy that gorgeous knife!

Shotgun Steve · January 03, 2010, 09:55:24 AM

Thanks for the kind words fellas. And thank you for posting the painting Mr. Ellis
It is much appreciated.

Shotgun Steve

WaddWatsonEllis · January 03, 2010, 11:29:42 AM

Steve,

Thank you for your kind words ... but one thing . My great-grandfather's name is a passel full just to write or say ... shortening it down to WWE works fine for me ... it's like when somebody calls me 'sir' in real life ... I keep thinking if I turn around, my father (a career AF officer) would be there ... now he was a sir!

There is a nice Belduque on this page;

http://www.whirlwindtraders.com/chrisknifepage.html

I have been trying to get a 'Wickipedia' like info page on Belduques but have not been successful so far ... if I find one, I will post it ...

BTW, the picks below are from the Delaronde website;

http://www.delarondeforge.com/

Ned Buckshot · January 03, 2010, 12:47:20 PM

How thick is the average blade for this type of knife?

Thanks

Ned

WaddWatsonEllis · January 03, 2010, 04:28:59 PM

Ned,

I have never seen an average length quoted ... the 'large' Belduque that I got from Crazy Crowe had a 5 1/2" blade and is about 9 3/4" overall. The one that is being made I specified as a Damascene bladed Belduque with over an 8 inch blade and will have a sheath that will have a spoon handle bent over so that the bent handle can hook over the top of the Botas de Alas.

But he has not recieved the blade blank yet for me to have dimensions on it ....

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · January 03, 2010, 07:54:32 PM

WWE; I tried to google belduque, as I've seen a link to the Guacho knives. No luck, but I did find this site that discusses Dutch words carried over into Spanish. BELDUQUE is one and seems to indicate an origin with the Dutch town of Hertogenbosch.

http://oreneta.com/kalebeul/2006/10/17/dutch-words-in-catalan-portuguese-and-spanish/

Scroll down to the paragraph headed METONOMY

P.S.; Here is an Argentine site, 'though it appears to be a commercial site.

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/argentine-knives.htm

Here is a photo showing how one is worn in Argentina.

http://www.suite101.com/view_image.cfm/736354

WaddWatsonEllis · January 04, 2010, 12:37:04 AM

Sir Charles,

I think I know the article you tried to find ... I had put it on a thread here, and emailed the person who wrote it ... turns out he is very kind and warm, and very interested in SASS.

I can't find the article either, but will try to find it in my email at a later date ....

WaddWatsonEllis · January 04, 2010, 01:10:17 AM

I was able to find the article I think you were searching for ... here it is:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/facon/criollo.html

Sir Charles deMouton-Black · January 04, 2010, 01:18:39 AM

WWE; Thats it. Was it posted here before? Still doesn't help much on the Californio belduque.

Ned Buckshot · January 04, 2010, 01:32:15 AM

WWE I was trying to get a feel for the Thickness of the blade not the length.

Thanks

Ned

WaddWatsonEllis · January 04, 2010, 01:36:09 AM

Sir Charles,

I posted it on some thread in cascity.com in the last two months ... but I got the address from the site from an old email I got from the author ...

And no, it doesn't have much info on Belduques ... the article is mostly about South American knives ... but as the author mentions, the Belduque is very similar to what they called a cuchillo ....

But if anyone would have any good articles on Belduques, I would love to see it!

WaddWatsonEllis · January 04, 2010, 01:40:07 AM

Ned, on my small Belduque from Crazy Crow, the thickness is 3/16" for a 5 1/2" blade, if that helps .... but I have never seen dimensions for a normal Belduque .... but I would guess 3/16-1/4" to be the ball park ...

Ned Buckshot · January 04, 2010, 01:48:31 AM

Thanks WWE that was what I was lookin' for.

Ned

Ned Buckshot · January 04, 2010, 02:04:29 AM

One more question WWE, do you know where your maker ordered the blade blank from? I've looked a bit and really havn't found anything?

Ned

ChuckBurrows · January 04, 2010, 06:01:23 AM

Steve - nice piece amigo! That maker used to have website and I 've got pics of several other pieces he did back when - all nice stuff...

Belduques are generally not small knives - often with blades 9-12" and sometimes longer - they were originally fighting knives thus the large size. All traditional belduques have integrally forged bolsters and are quite thick at the spine - typically 1/4" or more at the bolster (I've seen them up to a 1/2" thick) and then have a distal taper to the point with a false edge on the forward spine - in the scale drawing below you can see the blade's back edge profile.
As has been noted they are a cousin of the Gaucho knives such as the facon. They are also kin to the so-called French chef's knives. The drop edged tapered blade style was common was a typical style on many Mediterranean general purpose using knives from the Middle ages onward. The basic blade style was also widely used by the French as well as the Spanish and was common shape on knives in the SE area of the USA i.e Louisiana - compare to the very early Bowies such as the Searles and you can see the resemblance - in fact the style is often known as a Mediterranean Bowie amongst modern collectors. Grips on SW Belduques were commonly horn and were most often full tang slabs held on with iron pins rather than hidden tang.
I don't know of anyone that makes a commercial Belduque blade blank, they are at this time as far as I know full-custom proposition except for the small ones offered by Crazy Crow. Another option for those on a budget is to purchase one of the less expensive Argentine knives and use as is or rehandle it.

Here are a couple of originals - the first one is from Northern New Mexico, late 1700's period - the second is included in the Museum of the Fur Trade's "Fur Trade Cutlery Sketchbook" and is drawn to scale.

There is really very little info online regarding belduques and even in the books you'll have to dig deep.............

WaddWatsonEllis · January 04, 2010, 11:40:29 AM

Chuck & Steve,

No Foolin! That is the most concise and detailed information I have ever found on Belduques ... most people online discuss the topic like the information is so available that there is no reason to repeat it.

I have the Crazy Crow "Large" Beluque, and it is great for spreading peanut butter, but with a 5 1/2" blade, it is not really representative ... I use to sail, and I keep thinking what a great sailing knife the Crazy Crow would be.

Begging your permission after the fact, I have copied and pasted the sketch of the knife on "My Pictures", and have sent it to a friend who is making a Belduque for me. I am hoping I will be forgiven for not asking first ...