Dragoon Powder charge

[G. P. Cobb]

I finding my open tops with a full charge of triple seven is very healthy.  Without going into grains, the Dragoon seems to hold half again that much powder.  Is that an unreasonable amount for triple seven powder?  I don't need a blown or dropped gun.   Looking for the expeinced with the Dragoon.  Mine is a fist generation Uberti with the oblong lock holes. 

[James Hunt]

G.P. Cobb: I have no knowledge of triple 7, but ignorance has never prevented my from commenting before. And, your post stimulated my curiosity on several fronts.

Hogdon reports that: "Triple Seven® is a revolutionary black powder substitute that cleans up with water alone...even your hands will come clean with just water. You won't have to worry about any strong smells either...that and the time-consuming clean-up are both eliminated when you shoot Triple Seven. Triple Seven granular powder even delivers higher velocity for flatter, more accurate shooting."

First this seems to imply that it may be hotter (more pressure) than the real deal. Can you load this modern stuff grain for grain? The original Dragoon was designed for 50 grains of powder. I own a 2nd gen Colt dragoon and have had great success loading it with 50 grains of either 2 or 3 f Goex. The gun is so heavy that even with that there is not much recoil. And, it is accurate with that load. I would have no fear shooting real black at that level.

Second why do you bother with modern BP pretend powders? Use the real deal. It is amusing that Hogdon states that it cleans with just water - ha - that is exactly what works best on real BP. It amazes me that people think they must use anything else. Water and tallow (you know, like they used 150 years ago) is the cheapest cleaning solution and the best. Ballistol is a solution for corrosive primers, totally un-needed.  Moose milk? The others? A bunch of un-needed hooey. Works, but no better and twice the price.

I'm forced to use these pretend powders in mounted shooting because we can't load our own (I think real BP works better there also). But I don't have too for NCOWS. So get a can of the real thing and pour in 50 grains, you should do just fine with either round ball or conical. Hose that baby down with water after your done and liberally smear tallow around everything.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I tend to agree with James on this.

My 1st Model, 2nd Gen Colt Dragoon LOVES a full load of 50 grs and ball.  Very accurate.  My only problem is that the lever latch lets go of the lever once or twice per cylinder-full - but that is merely an annoyance.  At 45 - 47 grs, this problem doesn't happen at all.  I can't say from experience, 'cause I haven't yet used any of the 777 I have, but I'll bet it's just fine and quite safe.  I happen to prefer the real deal, however - which is why I haven't used any of the 777.  Only reasons I got it were #A: curiosity, and #B: my local WalMart sold me 3 containers for $10 each.  Cheap shooting!  I've been paying $13 - $14/lb for 3F Goex.

[Dirty Brass]

I use Triple 7 quite a lot. I have used full charges in my 2nd Model Dragoon, as well as my '51 Navy and Walker. Other than the lever rattling loose and falling a few times on the dragoon, I had no other issues. The Walker lever falls every shot it seems.

They recommend reducing 10% from normal loads - check the manufacturers data. I normally set my measure at 45 gr +/- for casual shooting, and go a little higher for the smoke and awe factor.

[Montana Slim]

The Dragoons are pretty beefy all-around, I wouldn't be afraid to use a full load of the current subs, or..my preference 3F black powder. Real BP is much cheaper when you use it by the case, as I do. Delivered cost running about 10-12 dollars per pound.

Agree with use of water for cleaning...I like hot water with a few drops of dish soap added.

Enjoy,
Slim

[madcratebuilder]

Colt manufacturing specs for the Dragoon are 35 to 40 grains (37 recommended) of FFFg, #11 caps and a .451 to .457 (.457 recommended).  I think this well apply to any replica.  I normally load 40 in the Dragoons and 50 in the Walker, doesn't beat the equipment up.

Triple7 is 15% hotter than black powder, check the web site. So 40grs of T7 would produce the same pressures as 46grs of black.

[James Hunt]

Colt manufacturing specs for the Dragoon are 35 to 40 grains (37 recommended) of FFFg, #11 caps and a .451 to .457 (.457 recommended).  I think this well apply to any replica.  I normally load 40 in the Dragoons and 50 in the Walker, doesn't beat the equipment up.

Triple7 is 15% hotter than black powder, check the web site. So 40grs of T7 would produce the same pressures as 46grs of black.

Are you referring to modern Italian recommendations for Colt Dragoons, Colt's recommendations for 2nd gen guns, or the signature series guns? I can find no such description for original guns. I would be interested.

You read references that the Dragoon was designed to hold 50 grains of powder, and I have seen no comment to indicate that they loaded to some other specification during the period. Venturino describes loading 2nd generation guns with 50 grains in his book on Colt firearms without problem. My experience is that the 2nd gen gun holds 50 grains easily and the recoil is very mild. I have never shot anything else in the gun. The gun shoots accurately with this load and disassembles easily. I would not hesitate to use 50 grains of black powder using either 2 or 3 f. Triple 7? I guess you are on your own, but I feel the creation of fake black powder is a excellent solution to a non-existent problem.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I was just reading the Colt (TM) manual yesterday.  I don't know when it was printed, but Colt recommends a charge of 47 grs. behind a .457" ball.  Of course, any charge that can be compressed by the rammer (with ball/conical on top) should be fine ... and safe.  I wouldn't worry a BIT about a 47 to 50 gr. charge of Trip7, as long as you follow Hodgdon's directions about compression.  They also state that a 10% drop of the charge should replicate a BP charge ... but I'll be trying 50 grs. in my Colt when I've recovered enough to go shooting.  (Which won't come TOO soon, IMHO.  My trigger finger is eveloping quite  an itch and needs scratching, ASAP!)

  Why?  Because I CAN!

[James Hunt]

An absolute rule for a memorable life is to always round up and hang on. At some point you will at least leave this world with a good story. I believe George Custer loaded his Dragoon with 50 grains.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

An absolute rule for a memorable life is to always round up and hang on. At some point you will at least leave this world with a good story. I believe George Custer loaded his Dragoon with 50 grains.