Cimarron's new USMR 1847 Walker

sfc rick · July 02, 2019, 06:30:40 AM

I had to have it, so here are the photo's. There are some differences worth mentioning as to the accuracy of the rollmarks and what nots. Of course they didn't reproduce the markings so the public couldn't tell the difference between this and the originals. I love how this one looks with the faux patina. See how many of the markings are close to the original and tell how they are different?

sfc rick · July 02, 2019, 06:33:51 AM

more...

Jake C · July 02, 2019, 07:47:28 AM

Beautiful revolver! Hope it treats you well

45 Dragoon · July 02, 2019, 07:56:53 AM

Yep, nice revolver! Make sure you fix the short arbor (it has one). Cool markings!!

Mike

DeaconKC · July 02, 2019, 09:30:56 AM

A fine looking shooter! Looking forward to a range report!

sfc rick · July 02, 2019, 02:50:47 PM

Quote from: 45 Dragoon on July 02, 2019, 07:56:53 AM
Yep, nice revolver! Make sure you fix the short arbor (it has one). Cool markings!!

Mike

Short arbor? What is that...like the measles or something? Can I see tell it if I disassemble it? Would it be like turning a kitten over to check which side of the fence it goes on?

Coffinmaker · July 02, 2019, 06:27:58 PM

Uberti built Open Top type guns have a severe fitment problem between the bore in the barrel lug for the Arbor and the actual length of the arbor. The Arbor is by design, suppose to bottom out in the barrel bore. Then with the wedge in place, the whole gun is rigid. With Uberti built guns, this doesn't happen. The barrel "floats" on the arbor and the wedge causes the arbor to float around. Every time the gun is taken apart, is is a different gun when it goes back together.

There is a tutorial on "The Open Range authored by Larsen E. Pettifogger that explains how to check the fitment, and how to correct it. there are actually several ways to correct the problem, but until corrected, any other attempt at tuning is a waste of time.

I'm not the Dragoon and I didn't stay in a Holliday Inn Express (I'm actually at Comfort Inn tonight) but that is the answer. The barrel will often tilt back far enough to jam against the cylinder face, locking the gun up.

Coal Creek Griff · July 02, 2019, 07:07:49 PM

Just to make it easier to find, I believe that the article is here:

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=7988.0

More specifically, the section dealing with arbor fit is here:

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Uberti_Open_Top_Revolvers_Part_3.pdf

and here:

http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Uberti_Open_Top_Revolvers_Part_4.pdf

Hopefully that helps.

CC Griff

sfc rick · July 02, 2019, 07:35:45 PM

I took it apart (had to clean anyway) and the arbor goes all the way into the bore. I don't have a short arbor. I took a cleaning rod and measured from the face of the cylinder while on the arbor and pushed against the receiver face. Then took the marked cleaning rod and inserted into the bore it fits in all the way in and it bottomed out. The wedge slips in and is a tight fit when assembled. No cylinder binding.

I read and looked at the article and pics.....my arbor is PERFECT....

45 Dragoon · July 02, 2019, 09:20:04 PM

Wow!! Yours is the first!!! Lol!!

Just a little teasin . . . Tell you what, drop a thin washer down the arbor hole and then put the assemblies together. Ok, now ask yourself "how'd that happen?" There's room for that washer and probably a little more. The arbor is what defines the barrel/cylinder clearance.

Pietta "fixed" this problem years ago with their open tops. Uberti still hasn't caught on . . . they do have the most excellent action parts though!
Mr. Coffinmaker is correct, if you shoot it without "fixing" it, it will eventually destroy itself, especially if you want to shoot heavy "horse pistol" loads . . . it's a Walker for crying out loud . . . don't shoot "pocket pistol" loads!!!!

By the way, you won't be able to do the 90 degree barrel on and swing it down test . . . they will only go fully on when correctly oriented.

Mike

Oh yes, I understand your arbor goes all the way into the bore . . . that's the problem, there's more bore than arbor

sfc rick · July 03, 2019, 06:08:44 AM

I tried different ways of measuring, and it shows the arbor is correctly matched to it's bore depth. I don't think it gets much better than that.

45 Dragoon · July 03, 2019, 07:44:49 AM

Ok, I'll just say in 4 + years I've never seen an open top from Uberti, ASM, ASP, Colt 2nd gen., Sig.series or Pietta (pre fix) that didn't have a short arbor. The only open top ever to come to the shop with a correct fit was an 1862 produced '60 Army (the originals . . . ).

You can measure with sticks all day but in the end, a washer (or stack) is the most accurate way of determining the short arbor or, you can just drive the wedge in till it stops and your cylinder will be locked. Either one will prove that your arbor is short. As I "kidded" before, if yours isn't short, it would be the first . . . or an anomaly. You asked "what is that?" about the short arbor. Two of us told you, one gave you links about the problem and how to fix it (there are other ways). It is a known and much discussed topic on many forums. Education is a "good thing" but a waste if it's not accepted.

When it is corrected, you can drive the wedge in and have a predetermined barrel/cylinder clearance (a free turning cyl). I set them to .0025" - .003" . And, they can handle full loads all day, every day . . . from now on !!

Mike

Major 2 · July 03, 2019, 08:02:23 AM

I'm not sure what you are trying to show with your depth gauge.

The measurement is made from the frame contact point , the two alignment pins , not Cylinder face.

What is desired, the Arbor is bottomed in the barrel, square with the frame @ the two alignment pins.

sfc rick · July 03, 2019, 08:39:46 AM

Gentleman, I surrender! I've been in the business designing and building machinery for decades in power transmissions and I appreciate all the knowledge showered on me. Fortunately I do have a working knowledge base to put all of this to use in my love of the sport.

Once again, Thank you!

sfc rick · July 03, 2019, 02:09:58 PM

Here is the revolver next to my real 1860 Sword.

Coal Creek Griff · July 03, 2019, 02:38:08 PM

I am not ordinarily a fan of antique finish guns, but I must say, yours looks really nice!

CC Griff

Crow Choker · July 03, 2019, 03:27:04 PM

Looks good. That finish goes good with the Walker, matches yer sword. FWIW---I have several Colt Uberti percussion and conversion revolvers out of a short dozen that the arbor fit was right on-even paper thin washers/metal rounds made the fit to long. I've also been told that it wasn't possible due to all Uberti's being to short, but I stand by what I've observed and written. Have read a few reports here and there of other opentop style Colt owners who have advised the same.

Major 2 · July 03, 2019, 04:16:46 PM

Quote from: sfc rick on July 03, 2019, 06:08:44 AM
I tried different ways of measuring, and it shows the arbor is correctly matched to it's bore depth. I don't think it gets much better than that.

My apologies if I offended your qualifications?. I was just clarifying the point of measurement.

sfc rick · July 03, 2019, 07:14:43 PM

Quote from: Major 2 on July 03, 2019, 04:16:46 PM
My apologies if I offended your qualifications?. I was just clarifying the point of measurement.

My feelings get hurt very easily, I'm pretty sensitive so thanks for the post...LOL!