1858 NEVER FAILS TO FIRE?

willy · November 21, 2009, 02:08:02 PM

While I think the Colt 1851 is the best handling pistol ever made, I would pick the Remington up without a second thought if my life was on the line!
I've got Colt- Walker ,third model Dragoon, 51Navy and two 60 Armies.
And one 58 Remington Army.
All the Colts at one time or the other has dropped a spent cap into the works tying up the revolver.
The 51 wouldn't fire a single cylinder from day one without a cap falling into the works.
A new set of Tresso nipples cured it.
BUT! There is still the chance of a cap stoppage.
On the other hand the Remington has never locked up from a cap falling off the nipple. NEVER ,NEVER.
Did I mention NEVER!!!
So I was just wondering if any of you Remington shooters have experinced any fail to fire with the 1858.

Montana Slim · November 21, 2009, 04:41:38 PM

On rare occasion I've had the cap get tied up in the hammer slot of my New Model Remington. Overall, about as frequent occurance as a cap getting between the hammer & frame of my 1860 Colts, and just as easy to clear.

Regards,
Slim

G. P. Cobb · November 21, 2009, 06:39:49 PM

I have one Remmie in hand, one on order with spare cylinder. From my very little experience, I can see the Remmie and the ROA Ruger are very superior to any open top mechanically speaking. Just plain strong. I've always wondered about that open cantalever style of the open top even though they are beautiful. Guess I'm excited about all of them.

Montana Slim · November 23, 2009, 05:22:17 PM

Quote from: G. P. Cobb on November 21, 2009, 06:39:49 PM
I have one Remmie in hand, one on order with spare cylinder. From my very little experience, I can see the Remmie and the ROA Ruger are very superior to any open top mechanically speaking. Just plain strong. I've always wondered about that open cantalever style of the open top even though they are beautiful. Guess I'm excited about all of them.

Each has their advantageous and their weakness. All things considered, I rate the Colt a better overall design in the holster-size class firearm intended fpr low-maintenance, extended combat-type shooting.

IMO, today's Remington is vastly superior to those available "in the day". The appearance of a closed frame gives the appearance of superiority to the Remington, but this is not true. The Colt is just as strong and quite adequate for the loads either of these weapons can fire.

Not intending to rain on anyones parade, the modern Remington is a fine choice.....I have a couple myself.

Regards,
Slim

James Hunt · November 23, 2009, 09:51:25 PM

Montana Slim Said: "IMO, today's Remington is vastly superior to those available "in the day"." Interesting.

And that may well be. Many NM Armies were issued to frontier troops following the CW since by then many of the 1860's were just worn out. Dorsey in his GUNS OF THE WESTERN INDIAN WAR documents letters written from officers in the field who stated the NM was junk, the troops hated them, there were issues with burst cylinders, etc.

Having said that I use an original NM for NCOWS, and it works fine. At both the Nationals and Eastern Regionals I went thru all the stages with no issues, no failure to fire, and no binding of the cylinder. The only thing I use on it is tallow, no special lube. I do use wads that have been soaked in tallow then placed beneath the bullet - a deviation from authenticity with no 19th century primary source for such that I know (Elmer Keith referenced it in the 20th century as having been told it by 19th century folks but that is pretty weak). The hammer spring is about twice as strong as those on the Italian guns, but I do get positive ignition! So who knows. As far as I can remember I have never had a failure to pop a cap with that gun or an issue where a cap got caught in it. I have had those events with 2nd gen Colt 1860s. Interesting comment Slim.

Montana Slim · November 29, 2009, 06:52:13 PM

I should note that my opinion regarding production quality is primary based on my experience with originals viewed / handled at the Rock Island Auction Service over the past years (probably 2-dozen plus). A good many of these were high-condition originals...some obviously used very little. Some appeared well made, a fews appeared to have very thin cylinder walls, cylinder notch flaws and alignment issues. Some had timing and mechanical issues, although the piece was otherwise in high condition. I've wondered if their parts interchangeability was as good as Colt. Nonetheless, other examples apeared well made would no doubt provide good service.

Regards,
Slim

Steel Horse Bailey · December 11, 2009, 03:17:22 PM

I'm betting that the quality of the modern alloys used - even in the Italian - must be very superior to the originals.

That would hold true for just about ANY modern repro - Colt, Remington, Spiller & Burr, and so on.

Freedom · December 12, 2009, 10:09:07 PM

When I was a teen these were the only pistols my friends and I could buy...just go the Mnt. man Rendezvous and slap down the cash... My friend bought a Rem 58' one time, and I bought a Walker

We shot them all the time and all summer long. In WY and MT they don't seem to rust if loaded up with tallow or Bore Butter, it is dry so we only cleaned them on special occasions or before going on big camp outs or hunting trips, etc.

Have always wanted to share this story but didnt figure anyone would believe me so I have kept it to myself

...I remember once , my friend took his Rem apart and started pulling caps out with a pair of hemostats... he pulled 11 caps out of the action of his gun!!

He never had problems with his gun not fireing... I couldn't believe the mess of scrap metal he pulled out of it and it still worked fine.

Montana Slim · December 13, 2009, 04:44:21 PM

Quote from: Freedom on December 12, 2009, 10:09:07 PM
.......Have always wanted to share this story but didnt figure anyone would believe me so I have kept it to myself ...I remember once , my friend took his Rem apart and started pulling caps out with a pair of hemostats... he pulled 11 caps out of the action and his gun!! He never had problems with his gun not fireing... I couldn't believe the mess of scrap metal he pulled out of it and it still worked fine.

I believe it...same results with my NM Remington & Colts, too.

Slim

madcratebuilder · December 30, 2009, 07:54:36 PM

If you shoot enough, all of them well eat a cap sooner or later, even my ROA has eat a cap.

James Hunt · December 31, 2009, 11:16:18 AM

Freedom - like Montana Slim I fully believe your limited cleaning story. Given you live in a dry climate for sure, but more - so the use of tallow. Like you I have left guns uncleaned for an extended period of time without damage. Few others seem to accept this in a day of multiple modern choices in BP cleaning agents, but water and tallow alone seem to be the magic ingredient for warding off the greatly (overly) feared oxidation process.