1861 Springfield

Marshal Deadwood · November 17, 2009, 05:45:23 AM

Del, I appologize if this is not in keeping with big bore rifles intended here, I just did not know anywheres else to ask this.

Do any of you have experinece with the Springfield rifled muskets. I was looking at an 1861Springfield in VERY good shape..and wondered how accurate these rifled muskets might be ? I know I've see some pics of them with tang sights even...so they must'a been fairly accurate.

I would consider hunting with it, as I hate to own any gun I can not shoot a deer with. I'm sure they are powerful enough to even kill a buffalo,,,I just am pondering the accuracy of the rifled Springfield muskets.

Some advice,,opinions,etc, would be most appreciated.

MD

Delmonico · November 17, 2009, 05:11:49 PM

As good a place as any to put it since we're not talking about targets 20 feet away.

I know a guy who shot a deer at around 300 yards with one, the only reason he took such a shot was he knew he could hit it, rather than hoped he could. He had been through Marine Sniper training, served as a Navy Corpsman. But of course he is an above average shot.

The real problem in the Civil War was they often used tactics for smoothbores against guns capable of hitting a man at 500 yards, or so the history books say. Have considered a Enfield Muskatoon myself sometime for muzzle-loading deer season, but just for it's handy length.

Grogan · November 17, 2009, 06:01:32 PM

A good place to ask this question (and get an accurate answer) would probably be over on the NSSA's website forum.

www.n-ssa.org

Those pards over there shoot their C.W. rifles and carbines in target matches and I'm sure some of them could give you some good advice on the subject.

That said, I know that there are some special bullet moulds made up that are available that vary by .001" increments when you order them. This way you can custom "tune" you bullet's fit to your particular rifle's bore diameter for best accuracy.

Another interesting aside is to look up the "Volunteer Rifle", which was a British Target Rifle of the same era.

The main Rifle-Musket of the American Civil War on the CSA side (pardon me, War of Northern Aggression) was the 1853 Enfield.

Many Federal troops were also equipped with the same rifle.

Over in England there were the "Volunteers" (their 1860s version of our National Guard).

The Volunteers for their drills took up target shooting matches as one of their main pastimes.

For long range shooting their standard issue Enfields really weren't up to the task so they adopted rules to allow custom target rifles to be built by private gunsmiths based on their Enfields as a basic pattern. (The replicas look essentially like a 3-Band Enfield but have better sights)

These rifles ended up being slug guns (not Rifle-Muskets) shooting long solid Lead bullets of .45 caliber. (These rifles essentially became caseless ".45-60s")

The closer tolerances made for slower loading and more frequent cleaning than the Rifle-Muskets, but accuracy was much better at longer ranges.

Replicas of these Volunteer Rifles have recently been made and (I think) are still available.

You might consider one of these in your search for an accurate "military" M.L. rifle?

Marshal Deadwood · November 17, 2009, 06:57:12 PM

Del, Grogan,,thanks. I'm just intersted in a military ML rifle/musket of the 19th century type,,,,I hunted with 'flilnters' for years and years but I'm not going back 'there. But a 19th century miilitary 'rifle/musket',,,,for the ML deer season just might be in order in the future.

So many guns,,,and so few dollars,,,,

MD * of the Holy Grail gun quest posse also know as 'The Big Guy Toy Syndrome' by the ladies that know us

Grogan · November 17, 2009, 07:58:25 PM

Well I've got an Armisport '53 Enfield replica along with the appropriate "period correct" Minnie Ball mould and have moulded up lots of soft Lead bullets.

So far I've been totally UNimpressed with its accuracy (that's in contrast to patched roundball guns, or Sharps, or just about any other CAS Levergun)

Of course I really haven't shot it all that much, it's more of a wall decoration.

But then again, how much work should loading 60g of BP, ramming a Minnie Ball down on top of it and topping it with a Musket Cap be?!!

My 2 Cents

Frenchie · November 17, 2009, 08:38:15 PM

I found this on the Web some time ago. I have an older repro Springfield Model 1863 Type 2 that I'm going to modify this way.

Lost In Translation: How To Convert a Repro Rifle Musket Into A True Minie System Rifle Musket

I posted this here too: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=2740.0

Joe Lansing · November 18, 2009, 08:36:34 AM

An Armi Sport '61 can give you the accuracy you're looking at, but you'll have to work at getting it. It takes a lot of trial and error testing varios combinations of powder, charges, bullets and diameters until you may find the magic in your rifle... a noble persuit.
You can find a lot of good info on line if you can devote enough time.

J.L.

Grogan · November 18, 2009, 01:47:45 PM

Thanks Frenchie and Joe,

That's some great information...(more projects!

)

Arizona Trooper · November 25, 2009, 09:42:55 PM

The first thing you need to do with an ArmiSport (or most other repro muskets) is glass bed the barrel. The bedding on originals is fantastic, on repros it's poor to awful. The only exceptions are the old Made In England Parker Hales and customs, like Bill Large and a few others make. Next is a trigger job to get the pull down to 4 pounds or so. After that, you can start to develop loads.

Attached is a 50 yard target shot with an original '61 Springfield, 10 rounds offhand. The center ring is 1 inch.

Pitspitr · December 26, 2009, 10:53:17 AM

I have an original 1861 Springfield and like you I'm not interested in owning a gun I can't shoot. My '61 is as good a shooter as any of the muzzleloaders I've shot. The biggest thing I've found in getting it to shoot (and all the old military rifles I've shot for that matter) is that it was designed to shoot a particular bullet with a particular powder charge. Start with that load then tweek it a littlel here or there if you feel the need, but you'll probably find that the military load for the 1861 springfield will give you pretty good results. Plus if you use the GI load when you try to use the flip up sights for 300 and 500 you'll be pretty close again.

sharps50/70 · December 27, 2009, 09:44:49 AM

I shoot in the N-SSA and many guys and girls shoot the '61 much better then I can. It's easy to get 1" to 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards and groups around 3" at 100 yards with issue sights, shooting mini balls of around 500 grains in front of 60 grains of FFG GOEX blackpowder. Many of us though, use a lighter mini, mine being Rapine 400 grains, with a powder charge of 45 to 47 grains of FFG GOEX. The big issue is to get a musket with a shootable bore. If the bore is shot out, you can have the barrel relined and obtain excellent accuracy. Many people even do this to repro muskets that don't shoot well.

Rich

Joe Lansing · December 27, 2009, 11:12:09 AM

I have a Mississippi rifle by Euroarms with a bedded Whittacre barrel and it's a real tack driver. It was worth every penny.

J.L.