Crossdraw Safety Dance

[kflach]

Has anyone seen a step-by-step description or video showing the safety "dance" for crossdraw shooters? I know the Pards will be more than willing to show me this weekend at the match, but if I can get the info ahead of time I can practice beforehand.

I tried to figure out what I need to do last night and I think I'm close, but...

[Daniel Nighteyes]

First, there's a way to do a crossdraw so that the "safety dance" isn't required.  I do it all the time,and have been critically observed by a large number of very picky RO's.

Second, the "dance" is pretty simple to do.  Just rotate your waist, and the crossdraw holster, so that the barrel does not break the 170-degree plane when you pull it.  Most folks who use a crossdraw pull the crossdraw pistol first.  Iff you're right-handed, for example (and most folks are), your crossdraw holster is on your left hip.  Rotate your waist to the right so that the barrel of the cross-draw pistol is pointed slightly downrange before your hand touches the grip.

[Jefro]

Howdy kflach, no such thing as a Crossdraw saftey dance. The rules say you  must "twist" their body if necessary. If you position yourself with your crossdraw holster slightly down range there is no problem. If your right handed, postion your left foot forward so you're not standing parrellel to the line, draw shoot, and holster from this position. The folks at the range will show you, it's very simple. IMHO the 170 is broken most often when holstering, more so if there is movment to the left. More than once I've been on deck and had a RH cross draw shooter point there gun directly at my belly button when holstering with movment to the left. The other times are at the loading and unloading table. With a little practice you should have no problem, just be aware of the position of the firearm and holster. Good Luck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bJ3TLEbZw&feature=related

21. Extreme care must be exercised when drawing a revolver from a cross-draw or shoulder
holster or returning the revolver to leather. The user must "twist" their body, if necessary, to
ensure the muzzle never breaks the 170-degree safety rule during the process. Failure to
ensure the muzzle is always down range is grounds for an immediate stage disqualification.
A second infraction during the same match is grounds for match disqualification. (Note: The
170-degree safety rule means the muzzle of the firearm must always be straight down range
+/- 85 degrees in any direction. If a competitor "comes close" to breaking the 180-degree
safety plane, the 170-degree safety rule has been violated, and the competitor is at fault.

Jefro

[Noz]

I ran across a situation that is very common.  I was called for reholstering a pistol into a straight drop holster as I was turning to move as stage directed. The individual that called the (exceeding the 170) violation was standing at the unloading table and he said I swept him as I was holstering. Look at your stages and the positioning of the loading and unloading tables. I'll bet they are placed parallel to and even with the firing line portion of the stage. If so, any movement of a pistol that is not perpendicular to the firing line will sweep someone on either the loading or unloading tables as those people are either on or in some cases ahead of the firing line. Any cross draw that is not grossly over done will cause a sweep.
Solutions? Move the loading and unloading tables back from the firing line

[kflach]

Thanks for that note, Noz. I've been thinking through the draw and the re-holstering, but hadn't thought about how to integrate that with the movement afterwards. I'll work on that tonight.

I find that with my long barrel, my draw is more 'stable' when I cross draw. I can keep my left hand in place better to control the holster during the draw (it wants to pull up with the gun) and I can get my hand up from the holster to grip the gun and pull the hammer more quickly, smoothly, and most importantly more securely. That part seems safer.

I just need to get the footwork and bodywork down.

And one of these day's I'll buy a better holster/belt.

[Russ T Chambers]

kflach

One thing to add to your complications!  If your weak hand is on your cross draw when you draw, there are a lot of RO's who will call you for sweeping yourself.  Your hand could be swept by the muzzle as it comes out of the holster.

[kflach]

Dang! I didn't know that. I don't put my finger inside the trigger guard until the gun is pointing downrange so that wasn't even something I'd considered.

[Noz]

Yep, They'll get you in a heartbeat for sweeping your own hand.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

kflach

One thing to add to your complications!  If your weak hand is on your cross draw when you draw, there are a lot of RO's who will call you for sweeping yourself.  Your hand could be swept by the muzzle as it comes out of the holster.

Then they would be wrong.  According to the rules you cannot sweep yourself when drawing.  Otherwise most of us would be DQ'ed the moment our hands touched the pistol.  [In a straight-hang holster, at what body appendage is the muzzle pointing?   H-m-m-m?]

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

That is correct. There is no penalty for sweeping yourself. Anyone who thinks so is making up their own rules. I steady my X-draw holster with mt left hand all the time as I draw from it.

And there is no requirement for footwork when drawing from a X-draw holster either. The idea is muzzle control. You do what you need to to prevent breaking the 170 as you draw and reholster. If you can do it without taking a step, that is fine. The RO should be watching your muzzle, not your feet.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

The idea is muzzle control. You do what you need to to prevent breaking the 170 as you draw and reholster. If you can do it without taking a step, that is fine. The RO should be watching your muzzle, not your feet.

Agreed, with one minor modification.  I think that should read as "... to prevent breaking the 170 any more than someone using a standard, straight-hang holster as you draw and reholster."

Recognize that anyone who uses a standard, straight-hang holster cannot help but violate the strict definition of the 170 when drawing and reholstering.

[kflach]

Just as a follow-up, I went out to the match yesterday, talked things over with the RO before the match, shot cross-draw, and had a wonderful time!

[Dick Dastardly]

This last weekend, at Mississippi Fandango Wisconsin State SASS Championship, we had a shooter called on sweeping with a loaded gun from his cross draw holster.  It was a match DQ.  It held up to posse review and was not challenged at HQ.  The pard went on with the posse for the remainder of the match and his bride even baked cookies for the posse the second day.  No hard feelings, but it was a tough call.

So, yes, there are eyes watching.  If you use a X-draw, know how to keep from breaking the 170 rule.  Dancing is optional.

One more thing.  SASS shooting is the safest shooting discipline I've every been involved with.  I like it that way.

DD-DLoS

[Brizco-Z]

OK Pard, Let me toss this in,

Are there very many out there that do the straight draw and twist, as in, butt forward drawing. 

As I performed it with 51 Navies, not at a match, the butts are forward and the holsters, either side, hang straight down.  Thumbs toward the back, palms turned out, grap the grips and pull up, twist hands to palm inward, as in a normal draw and raising the pistol up and then bring the muzzles to point downrange.  To holster, you release the grips and let the barrels drop forward spinning 90 degrees downward rotating around the index finger, with a slightly tightening of the index finger.  The rotation stops with the barrel resting on the other three fingers, across the knuckles.  You turn each hand , knuckles, inward and slightly turn the revolver until the butts are again pointed directly forward, the barrels are pointed straight down.  You then bring the pistols back over each holster and then slide each down and in. 

Is this an approved draw, or not...... I like it........Gunfighters??

Thanks,

Brizco-Z

[Jefro]

Is this an approved draw, or not...... I like it........Gunfighters??

Brizco-Z

Shooters Handbook page 14
Gunfighters
• Two standard holsters are required, one on each side. No cross-draw or "butt forward" configurations are allowed.

Jefro

[knucklehead]

for some reason i hear/read about the cross draw dance and the R O's being very picky about it more than anything else.

seams like most people are trying to steer everyone to a straight draw holsters.

i for one use a cross draw and keep it as closs to the belt buckle as i can and place my left foot foward so that i dont have to do the dance. never been called on it

[Montana Slim]

OK Pard, Let me toss this in,

Are there very many out there that do the straight draw and twist, as in, butt forward drawing. 

As I performed it with 51 Navies, not at a match, the butts are forward and the holsters, either side, hang straight down.  Thumbs toward the back, palms turned out, grap the grips and pull up, twist hands to palm inward, as in a normal draw and raising the pistol up and then bring the muzzles to point downrange.  To holster, you release the grips and let the barrels drop forward spinning 90 degrees downward rotating around the index finger, with a slightly tightening of the index finger.  The rotation stops with the barrel resting on the other three fingers, across the knuckles.  You turn each hand , knuckles, inward and slightly turn the revolver until the butts are again pointed directly forward, the barrels are pointed straight down.  You then bring the pistols back over each holster and then slide each down and in. 

Is this an approved draw, or not...... I like it........Gunfighters??

Thanks,

Brizco-Z

Thats the way I carry/draw my 1860 percussion Colts. Been doing it for years. Safe or safer than any other draw. Not allowed for gunfighter I reckon, just cause it SAYS so in the rules....not cause the rulemakers know diddly-squat about it. If ya don't break the 170, what diff....JMHNSO on the subject.
Regards,
Slim

[kflach]

I kept my left foot forward as well. I like having my right leg back when I shoot anyways, so doing the cross-draw this ways feels very natural.

[Noz]

I gave up on the crossdraw just to escape the hassle.

[Driftwood Johnson]

I gave up on the crossdraw just to escape the hassle.

I have been carrying my weak side pistol in a cross draw holster since day one. Nobody gives me any hassle. In fact, I am often asked to demonstrate how to draw without sweeping anybody.