45-70 Trapdoor Used in Civil War???

[Will Ketchum]

Of course we know they weren't   However the 1908 Sears, Roebuck & Co. catalog makes this statement regarding the Tarpdoor they are advertising.  "These are genuine Springfield breech loading rifles, taking the 45-70 caliber goverment cartridge, and any of our customers who have been in the civil war will know that there no better rifles made at any price, for these are the same rifles were used in our civil war."  Now many of the muzzle loading rifles were converted using the Allen system but I believe those were all 50-70s and I doubt that the guns Sears was selling were conversions.   Still it goes to show that even period publications can get it wrong.

Oh by the way, the price was $2.75, which included 20 rounds of ammuntion.   For $3.75 you get their cut down version which they called the Springfield Sporting Rifle, it to included 20 rounds.

Will Ketchum

[Shotgun Franklin]

I'd take 2 at that price.

[Delmonico]

I'd take 2 at that price.

No problem, but you have to be willing to work for a $1 a day or 10 cents an hour, yer choice.

[James Hunt]

"Still it goes to show that even period publications can get it wrong."

I get your point Will, and it is a very good point to keep in mind.

[River City John]

I kinda get the impression from the ad that they are touting the Springfield name as to quality remembered on the part of any veterans, as opposed to stating these .45-70 cal. Trapdoors were used in the CW.
Not the first time copy for an ad was worded awkwardly.

". . .with scenes of Davey Crockett in action on the mattress!"

RCJ

[Delmonico]

"Still it goes to show that even period publications can get it wrong."

I get your point Will, and it is a very good point to keep in mind.

Well remember several years ago Silver Creek Slim and I proved on TWS, with period documentation that in the 19th Century babies were brought by storks.

[Shotgun Franklin]

I watched 'Santa Fe Trail' last night. It's set starting in 1854. Most revolvers appeared to be Remington 1875s and every rifle I could make out was a Trapdoor. I do wonder what happened to all those old guns?

[Grogan]

Well, in a way, they got it right...

Think about it, the early .50-70 Trapdoor Springfields were conversions of the 1863 Springfield Rifle Muskets.

And those WERE what the Civil War veterans were familiar with.

In fact, if you think about it, Springfield Armory's manufacture of the what was essentially a Muzzleloader design, i.e. a rifle made with a seperate Lockplate & Hammer, made into the 1880s (and used into the Spanish American War) is somewhat unusual, considering that most other rifle designs had long departed from this design concept. 

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

No problem, but you have to be willing to work for a $1 a day or 10 cents an hour, yer choice.

So, fer less than a week's work, you could get a new rifle and 20 rounds?  I'd do it!  Think how many weeks work it would take now, 'specially to get a nice Sharps or something like that?  At my income, well...you don't wanta know...

[Grogan]

So, fer less than a week's work, you could get a new rifle and 20 rounds?  I'd do it!  Think how many weeks work it would take now, 'specially to get a nice Sharps or something like that?  At my income, well...you don't wanta know...

Actually, I think that $1/day is a little high.

I've heard that during the depression that followed the Civil War $.25/day was more like it. 

Of course these boys...getting these



were getting ~$2.50-$3.50 ea.

Let's see, that times 60-100/day would work out to $150/day on the low end.

Which, after paying off the Skinners and paying for supplies, food, Powder, Primers, Lead and extra ammo would probably make the Hunter ~$18-$25 day net.  That's NOT bad money when most others were making 25 cents.

With a Sharps costing $35-$45, 2 days wages would about pay for it. 

[Delmonico]

Good cowboys made about $30 a month, not really sure what other laborers made.

When that picture of Rath's hide yard was taken in 74-75 (Not sure the exact date) hides had dropped to about $1.00-$1.50 each, still decent money for the time, but not like 71-73.

Also that trapdoor would today compare more to a SKS as a surplus rifle. 

[Gaucho Gringo]

A few years after the hide hunters the bone gatherers came along picking up the bones. This is one of the lesser known things about the west. Sorry to get a little off topic but the picture of the buffalo hides made me think about it.

[Grogan]

Good cowboys made about $30 a month, not really sure what other laborers made.

That sounds like awfully GOOD money for those days for a Cowboy.

I was just looking at one of my books on Winchesters the other day and they included a reprint of a page of Oliver Winchester's 1871 Payroll Ledger in it.

He was paying his employees between $.03->$.05/hr !   (His skilled machinists were making that 5 cents/hr., the Ammunition Dept. workers were making 3-4 cents/hr.)

It looked like most of them were working 10-12 hr. days and possibly 6 days/week.

[tombogan03884]

So, fer less than a week's work, you could get a new rifle and 20 rounds?  I'd do it!  Think how many weeks work it would take now, 'specially to get a nice Sharps or something like that?  At my income, well...you don't wanta know...

By the time that catalog was issued the first Semi auto Winchester Rifles were on the market, This is a nuch worse deal than a Yugo Mauser for $200 today.