New SSS member Kropatchek's Spencer with photos; Interesting Saddle Ring

[Two Flints]

SPENCER M 1865        S/N 385 DETAILS:
Dimensions:
O.A.L.      37"
Barrel length (from front receiver) 18 5/16" (including chamber 20")
Barrel dia. : front .746" Rear: 1.081" (2 flats dimension 1")
Thickness receiver 1.25"




Markings:
S/N 385 on receiver(offset due to screws for tang sight)
M1865 top of barrel
Number 102795 neatly crossed out by backslashes on underside of barrel
Small "W" underside of barrel
Number 194 on:
Upper breechblock
Lower breechblock
Lock (inside)
Butt
Butt plate
Loading lever
Receiver(under lock)
Top of receiver:
SPENCER REPEATING
RIFLE CO. BOSTON MASS
PAT'D MARCH.6 1860




Caliber 56-50
Bore dia. .5025
Grove dia .5165

Condition:
No blue or case hardening left (apart from a ½" square under front stock)
Wood  perfect, very small dents in butt
Inside barrel: as a mirror


Particulars:
Spencers patent Cut-off
Odd saddle ring ( not mentioned in Roy Marcot's book )

[Herbert]

is that the same carbine that was found in france,a converted sporting rifle to carrbine,if not there needs to be some searious reserch done on it,a unknown type posbly asembled by winchester by the look of the sadle ring ,two of the same would be too big of a chance to be a gunsmith gob

[Two Flints]

Herbert,

Thanks for the response.  Kropatchek is from the Netherlands

Two Flints

[Kropatchek]

is that the same carbine that was found in france,a converted sporting rifle to carrbine,if not there needs to be some searious reserch done on it,a unknown type posbly asembled by winchester by the look of the sadle ring ,two of the same would be too big of a chance to be a gunsmith gob

I just replied to the "Found on the Paris fleemarket" Its indeed number 2  that was found in Europe.
Kro

[Herbert]

I think you have a extream rarity very posibly made up by winchester from leftover sporting rifles that they converted to carbine by ataching there own sling ring and replaceng barell and stamping new serial number to match action,it defently needs more reserch doing on them considering winchester thort very seariously about making spencers

[French Jack]

The receiver also has the holes drilled and tapped for a rear tang sight.  This was done on the sporting rifles, not on the standard carbines or rifles.  I concur that it is very likely one of the Winchester pieces made up from left over as well as new parts.

[Kropatchek]

Been searching French, German, Austrian site but no reference of import. As there areno proofmarks in it is highly unlikely that any of the European governments purchaged the Spencers. The only reference to European goverment puchage is tha the French bought approx 48000?? rifles for the Anglo-Prusion war in 1871.
How is the search going on the other side of the pond?

[Two Flints]

Kro,

These were posted earlier on SSS.

Here are two photographs that show Spencer rifles (and Carbines) purchased from the US after the Civil War by the French government for their use in the Franco-Prussian War.

Two Flints

[Herbert]

I would keep looking in europe that is wear nealy all the left over spencers ended up before the army started to sell serpless ones in the US,alot of the early serpless was bought by big companys who promperly sold them to France,your carbine would have been in the left over sporting rifles that were not sold and bought by the American Repeating Rifle Co who were then bought out by Winchester with a large stock of unsold modle 1867s NM &sporting rifles, Winchester pushed hard to sell these rifles to various european goverments,and were triled by Switzaland,England that i know of probly other contrys as well Japan bought some and France the magirity of the rest,i think some of the machinery ended up in Belgian were it was yoused to make the Falisse&Trappman Spencer ,though i carnt find evedance for this,i was told this was a front for winchester so they could try the spencer market,but i am inclined to think this is a product of too much speclation