.44-40 Reloading Question

Johnny McCrae · February 06, 2009, 07:38:25 PM

I have just started to reload .44-40 Cartridges for my 1892 EMF Hartford Winchester Carbine. I use Lee dies with a Lee Factory crimp in a Lee Classic Turret Press. I'm using Winchester and Starline brass, 5.7 grains of Trail Boss, Federal large pistol primers and Oregon Laser Cast 200 grain bullets.

After firing the rounds, the open end of the case's get nicks and appear ragged. The severity of this varies and occurs on both the Starline and Winchester brass. I have been reloading and using these cases again. The rifle now has around 250 rounds through it, all were my reloads except for 50 rounds. I did see some nicks and raggedness on the Black Hills factory rounds also.

Is this something to be concerned about or just a result of the thinner neck's on ,44-40 brass? I load a lot of .38 Special & .45 Colt Cartridge's and do not see this there.

Attached are some pictures of the fired case's. Sorry for the lousy pictures.

Any help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Pettifogger · February 06, 2009, 09:02:54 PM

.44-40 brass is very thin and the 92 ejector is quite strong so it appears your cases are getting damaged when they are ejected. If you haven't had an action job, you can replace the ejector spring with a much lighter one and the problem will go away or at least not be as severe.

Johnny McCrae · February 06, 2009, 11:03:49 PM

Howdy Pettifogger,

Thank you for your reply. I do plan on getting an action job on the 1892 before the season starts.

Fingers McGee · February 06, 2009, 11:24:05 PM

Quote from: Pettifogger on February 06, 2009, 09:02:54 PM
.44-40 brass is very thin and the 92 ejector is quite strong so it appears your cases are getting damaged when they are ejected. If you haven't had an action job, you can replace the ejector spring with a much lighter one and the problem will go away or at least not be as severe.

Yep

FM

Driftwood Johnson · February 07, 2009, 02:09:46 AM

Howdy

You are getting the classic 'pitcher mouth' that the Model 1892 often does to the case mouth as it ejects the case. My 100 year old Winchester does it too. Yes, it will damage your brass and lead to premature splitting at the case mouth.

Go over to the SASS Wire and post the question. Mention 'pitcher mouth' and '44-40'. Hopefully Trail Rider will reply, he has a fix for this, I just don't remember what it is. Maybe Nate will chime it too.

Johnny McCrae · February 07, 2009, 08:31:38 AM

Howdy Driftwood,

Thank you for your input. I'll go ahead and make that post on the SASS Wire.

Trailrider · February 07, 2009, 12:18:34 PM

Quote from: Driftwood Johnson on February 07, 2009, 02:09:46 AM
Howdy

You are getting the classic 'pitcher mouth' that the Model 1892 often does to the case mouth as it ejects the case. My 100 year old Winchester does it too. Yes, it will damage your brass and lead to premature splitting at the case mouth.

Go over to the SASS Wire and post the question. Mention 'pitcher mouth' and '44-40'. Hopefully Trail Rider will reply, he has a fix for this, I just don't remember what it is. Maybe Nate will chime it too.

Gotcha covered over on the SASS Wire! But for those who don't go there... The problem is with the sharp corners on the rifle! As best as I can determine, the problem lies with the case mouth catching on the sharp corners of the extractor cut in the back end of the barrel, where the extractor fits when the action is closed. If you carefully round these surfaces slightly, the problem should go away or at least minimize to a manageable degree. There may be other sharp surfaces, but you have to be CAREFUL about taking off too much metal that would ruin the rifle.

The other suggestion is to use a small needlenose pliars with one jaw that is convex and the other flat to iron out the pitcher mouth. This works as long as the deformity isn't so great that the mouth is torn. If there's a little tear it can usually be trimmed away after the deformity is fixed. I use Winchester brass almost exclusively, and get about 20 reloads from the brass.

Hope this helps.

Johnny McCrae · February 07, 2009, 01:30:24 PM

Howdy Trailrider,

Thank you for responding to my questions. I just looked at an assembly drawing of the rifle and have located the extractor cut you mention. There is a sharp edge there. I will very carefully try to smooth it out.

I've been reloading .38 Special, .45 Colt and .45-70 cartridges for about two years now. I was reluctant at first to reload .44-40's then I read as many post's about .44-40's as I could from CAS City. I learned a lot and decided to tackle .44-40's. I'm glad I did.

My thanks to everyone on CAS City for all of the excellent and positive information you all provide.

Johnny McCrae · March 02, 2009, 08:25:22 PM

I did some smoothing of the extractor cut. Today I put around 100 rounds through the rifle and the "pitcher mouthing" has diminished quite a bit.

My thanks again to everyone for all of your help.

george rodgers · March 14, 2009, 07:32:02 PM

I have a 66winchester, a 73winchester, and a marlin, all in 44/40, and have never observed this in any of my three rifles. I suggest you give Nate Kiowa Jones, Steve's Guns, a call. He is an expert on the 92winchester.

Blackpowder Burn · March 21, 2009, 11:21:09 PM

+1 what George said. I have an original Winchester 92, a Cimarron (Uberti) Win 73 and a USFA Lightning in 44-40 and have never encountered this with any of them.

Johnny McCrae · March 22, 2009, 09:26:45 AM

Howdy George & Aggie,

Many thanks for your input. As I mentioned, the little bit of smoothing I did around the extractor cut helped quite a bit. We have an excellent gunsmith in our area who will be getting the rifle next week for an action job. He has worked on all of my guns and they have been 100% trouble free.

This rifle is an EMF Hartford Carbine. It shoots real nice for me. I really like the overall appearance especially the wood.