Uberti 1872 Open Top conversion in .45 LC shoots way high and to the rt.

[will2124]

My first post.  I have a NIB Uberti open top in .45 LC.  First time at the range, I was shooting at 15 feet.  First shot was about 15" high and about 10" to the right.  I was using the small sights, but they seemed like they'd work.  Second shot, same type of deal.  After ten rounds, the target was splattered in the same area.  Finally, I said to heck with it, I just pointed and shot.  Started hitting right where I wanted to.  Now, I've shot competitively with handgun and rifle, so I can shoot, but I'm puzzled about the sights being off so much, and particularly high, so I can't file them to bring it up as many of my BP rifles I make usually require.  Can these sights be fixed.  I really like this gun, but I'm accustomed to using sights to aim.

[Dirty Brass]

I ran into the same scenario with my new OT 45 - it hit about 12" high at 20' for the first few cyclinders. Then, like you I started pointing and shooting instead of using a rest to check groups, and all of a suddent 4" high was the pattern. No change in loading either, so it wasn't that. Hmmmm....go figure. LR was fine on mine. Since I seldom shoot off a rest, I'm pretty satisfied at 4" high - I can adjust to that. I must change my sight picture when pointing off hand (or the other way around) and don't realize it. groupings were quite acceptable for my old eyes.  Is there a way to add to the front sight to lower the groups? Left and right is a bigger issue obviously - canting barrel or something along those lines? I'd try a adifferent loading first, but since you shoot a lot, you probably have it under control.....

[Professor Marvel]

Gentlemen -
Whilst I have no experience with the Open Top Cartridge revolver, I can relate similar issues with the Navy 1851. The designs are essentially identical.  The barrel is aligned by a complex combination of the cylinder arbor, pressure from the wedge, and pressure from the frame/barrel base ( and the specific fitting of the frame pins) and the arbor pin/barrel fit . It is entirely possible that the fit at the frame/barrel base was not quite correct, thus pressing the barrel skyward (ie shooting high). As the revolver is "shot in" and this joint can tighten and the barrel would shoot lower. Another cause of "mispointing" is a too tight or too loose wedge. A wedge that is driven in too far can draw the barrel tighter into the arbor once more raising point of impact. It is my understanding that this is what the barrel wedge screw is for, to limit how far you can drive the wedge in. One  can tweak the wedge/screw combination and to some extent adjust point of impact. There are further issues with correct fitting of the arbor to the barrel, to ensure that the arbor seats correctly at the very bottom  of the arbor hole in the barrel. Sometimes someone attempts to adjust headspace or barrel/cylinder gap only by driving the wedge in farther  instead of adjusting all the other bits as well.

Lastly, while I do not know if the design of front sight of the open top is high enough for 20 foot point of aim - I can attest that the 1851 Colt's and replicas use a barlycorn sight that appears regulated for about 125 yards, and this will shoot too high at closer ranges .

I hope this may shed some light on your problem, at least until some of our more learned colleagues chime in.

yhs
Prof Marvel

[Fingers McGee]

Gentlemen -
Whilst I have no experience with the Open Top Cartridge revolver, I can relate similar issues with the Navy 1851. The designs are essentially identical.  The barrel is aligned by a complex combination of the cylinder arbor, pressure from the wedge, and pressure from the frame/barrel base ( and the specific fitting of the frame pins) and the arbor pin/barrel fit . It is entirely possible that the fit at the frame/barrel base was not quite correct, thus pressing the barrel skyward (ie shooting high). As the revolver is "shot in" and this joint can tighten and the barrel would shoot lower. Another cause of "mispointing" is a too tight or too loose wedge. A wedge that is driven in too far can draw the barrel tighter into the arbor once more raising point of impact. It is my understanding that this is what the barrel wedge screw is for, to limit how far you can drive the wedge in. One  can tweak the wedge/screw combination and to some extent adjust point of impact. There are further issues with correct fitting of the arbor to the barrel, to ensure that the arbor seats correctly at the very bottom  of the arbor hole in the barrel. Sometimes someone attempts to adjust headspace or barrel/cylinder gap only by driving the wedge in farther  instead of adjusting all the other bits as well.

Lastly, while I do not know if the design of front sight of the open top is high enough for 20 foot point of aim - I can attest that the 1851 Colt's and replicas use a barlycorn sight that appears regulated for about 125 yards, and this will shoot too high at closer ranges .

I hope this may shed some light on your problem, at least until some of our more learned colleagues chime in.

yhs
Prof Marvel

That has been my understanding and experience also.  Opening the sight notch in the hammer usually brings the POI down also.

[will2124]

Thanks all.  BTW, the rear sights on this weapon are not on the hammer, but on a raised area on the rear of the barrel, adjacent to the front of the cylinder.  Not bad really, provides a 5"+ sight radius.  The wedge has a screw that allows the securing of the wedge, and I don't think this will allow me much freedom of movement left and right, as was the case on a Navy I had years ago.  However, what is is, and I think I'll continue to shoot it in and see what happens.  The 125 yard situation could very well be correct, at the relatively slow velocities of this round (Magnatech 250 LFN) I might be right on at longer distances.  If all else fails, I guess I'll have the front sight removed, and a higher one dove-tailed in.  This would give me elevation and windage correction.  First weapon I've ever had that it didn't really irritate me when it didn't shoot to point of aim, I just really like the design, way it feels in the hand, etc.  so don't mind doing some tinkering.  Anybody have any experience with the .38 cal Navy version?

[Rebel Dave]

Will

I have an open top just like yours. I havn't had chance to shoot it yet tho. I have been wondering what bullet and charge of 3f black to shoot in it. As you have probably noticed the cyl walls are a little thin. I don't want to get the press up to high. I also have a box of that same ammo. I thinkth MV is around 750 FPS. I am going to shoot The Holy Black only in mine. I am anxious to shoot it.
Just paid off my layaway on the same gun in 38 spec w/7.5 in bbl. havn't got it home yet, cause I'm waiting on my background check, to clear. I should get it home this week.

Rebel Dave

[will2124]

Dave:  This is actually a rather low pressure round in smokeless as loaded for CAS uses.  I was surprised at the small amount of recoil.  The revolver instructions specify no +P type loads.  I have given it some thought to reload in BP, since I have 8 cans left around from my reenacting days.  Interesting how it would shoot and possibly effect point of aim.  I've noticed that in many military long guns, they shoot more accurately with military ammo than civilian...guess that was what was used to regulate the sights.  Particularly an 8mm K98.  Military ammo goes where it's aimed, civilian doesn't.    I've also had the hots for a .38 since I got the .45.  Probably cheaper to shoot smokeless as well.  Maybe I'll end up with a double rig, .45 on the left, .38 on the right.  I'm a lefty.