Crimping .44-40 (Or any original Winchester '73 cartridge)

[Dr. Bob]

FCK,

Maybe so, but we have learned a lot on this thread.  Real knowledge!  Thanks fellows! 

[Mako]

I'd bet money that there are threads on the Internet by women about shoes & handbags that have less posts than this one. 

Oooooh, now that you mention it I wonder if I could get one to match my boots and cap pouch...
~Mako
P.S.
FCK, I know you're just jealous...I tell you what, you start a new thread on Confederate revolvers and I'll string it out for you.

[Bad Ramon]

I started loading for 44-40 about 18 years ago. I found the best way to go to get a really consistent crimp was with a straight seater and a separate crimp die. I think C-H or someone now makes a straight line seater and you shouldn't have to have one made. Something else to remember is to not get too crazy with the chamfer tool. By just barely breaking the edge you leave enough metal to roll into the crimp groove. Remember the brass thickness at the neck in this cartridge is very thin and no matter what you do you will not be able to get a .44 magnum type HEAVY crimp. Stay within the limitations and you will enjoy this cartridge............................

[Driftwood Johnson]

Remember the brass thickness at the neck in this cartridge is very thin and no matter what you do you will not be able to get a .44 magnum type HEAVY crimp.

I said pretty much the same thing about three pages ago but nobody seemed to be listening.

[Delmonico]

I said pretty much the same thing about three pages ago but nobody seemed to be listening.

Common around here at times.

[Mako]

Remember the brass thickness at the neck in this cartridge is very thin and no matter what you do you will not be able to get a .44 magnum type HEAVY crimp.

I said pretty much the same thing about three pages ago but nobody seemed to be listening.

Driftwood,
Betcha I can (well I'm going to try)...You are right if you are talking about a standard roll crimp die, you will collapse the neck almost every time.  I'm going to make a custom crimp die from a .38-40 Lee Factory Crimp Die.  Bernie's crimp dies for heeled bullets gave me the inspiraton.  I just have to work the internal cylindrical grinding into my schedule.

Later,
Mako

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Mako;  LEE makes a collet type Factory Crimp Die for .44 WCF.  I know, 'cause I've had one for years, & that is what I was referring to whenever I posted on this topic.

[Mako]

Mako;  LEE makes a collet type Factory Crimp Die for .44 WCF.  I know, 'cause I've had one for years, & that is what I was referring to whenever I posted on this topic.

Sir Charles,
I know...I have one.  I said that many pages ago on this thread (in the very first post on this thread), I have a Lee .44-40 Factory Crimp Die.  That is what the majority of the discussion on this thread has been about.  It has been about how the .44-40 Lee collapsing collet Factory Crimp Die die doesn't make a hard crimp, and it is impossible to get one with a traditional roll crimp die without collapsing cases. That's it, I simply want a better crimp and neither your die nor mine will provide it in their current states.

Have a great weekend,
Mako

[Dick Dastardly]

LEE makes some fine crimp dies.  Some ar collet, some are roll crimp.  All do a good job of making sure your ammo will conform to facrory specs.

My last act in reloading is a LEE factory crimp.

DD-DLoS

[Mako]

Dick,
You are right. I use them on a lot of things.  I definitely use them on almost all of my revolver crimps.  The .44-40 is the odd man out in my "revolver" dies.  It is a "rifle" type collet die instead of the floating crimping piece and there isn't a resizing ring.  I use Dillon taper crimp dies for my auto pistol loads.

I have been playing with an RCBS die in crimping my .44 Russian loads because I am currently not resizing my cases to try and prevent blow back in a .44 spl carbine I'm shooting.  It still isn't stopping it all, if it did work I would probably knock the sizing ring out of a Lee die or grind the diameter larger because I like the floating crimp piece, it seems to give me more consistent crimps.  I'm not sure why, because in reality it hard stops and acts much like a standard roll crimp die.  Maybe the slight clearance between the sliding piece and the die body allows it to float and center the case better.  I'm not sure, maybe it is the sizer that makes the difference, I just know I get better crimps with the Lee.  But I will say I have used sizing dies after traditional roll crimp dies and the Lee crimp still looks better.

So no one will misunderstand...I have been talking about straight wall cases now, not bottlenecked cases like the .44-40, .38-40, etc. for those I would (or do) use a Lee Factory Crimp Die with the collapsing collet.

~Mako

P.S. I forgot, I have one other exception...I use a taper crimp die for the loads for my Smith model 25 revolvers.  The case headspaces on the mouth.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Mako,

I see your point entirely.  I don't load fragile cases like the 44WCF or 38-40.  Were I to do it, I'd pay long attention to case length.  Not all are created, or remain, equal.  Crimping fragile case mouths involves a degree of finesse that I'm sure all have mastered.  The real problem comes when some fairly new ham handed reloader tries to make one size fit all.

There's a feel to all presses.  Tonight I loaded a couple hundred rounds of Holy Black 44 Magnum ammo with Mav Dutchman Big Lube™ boolits. Since the more robust 44 Magnum case uses a LEE roll crimp factory crimp die, I had no questions about brass length.  But, were I loading 44-40 ammo, I'd be checking each one for case length.  My little LEE Pro 1000 press does speak to me and if I listen, it tells me when stuff ain't rite.

Thus ends my discourse on loading 44 Caliber SASS cases,. . . . for the time being.

DD-DLoS

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Mako;  Yes, I thought you did say that.  Then, you spoke about altering a .38WCF collet FCD, and I lost my mind.  I am a senor citi-zen, and I can prove it!

I use the RCBS 44-200-FP.  It has a normal crimp groove, and the collet FCD makes a nice crimp.

[Max Doolin]

Sir Black please specify which FCD you use 38/40 or 44/40 thats is the issue.....
I am still having a debate (with myself) on whether I should modify my 44 FCD or
not it does the job nicely now..........oh that answers it there...