Lyman 440 gr bullet in Spencer

[Capt'n Jack]

I purchased a 56-50 Armi from GA dealer (700 including shipping and transfer, as new, original owner could not bring himself to purchase ammo, wow) and am awaiting arrival (you know the dance, shipper wants FFL from transfer agent who wants shiipers FFL first, and I don't have either). 

I have been reloading and shooting a 50-70 for 30 years (repro Sharps 59 conversion) using the 440 gr lyman bullet sized to 509.  It is very accurate in the faux Sharps at any reasonable range.  This bullet is a flat point but not a large flat by any means.

Has anyone used this bullet in the 56-50 and does it load to short enough length to function?  Using smokeless powder only here.  Also hope to find Trailboss loads for this weight.  Thanks in advance, Captn Jack.

[Trailrider]

Howdy, Pard,
I'd recommend AGAINST any bullet that doesn't have a meplat (flat) less than .250" diameter!  Plus the 440 grain bullet may be a tad heavy for the lower velocity and rifling twist of the .56-50.  That magazine in the buttstock is right up against your face!  A magazine explosion could ruin your whole day (face!)    Also, the overall cartridge length resulting from using this bullet may creat feeding problems.

Ride careful, Pard!

[Capt'n Jack]

The flat measures as best as I can measure it 3/16 inch.  As for length, the bullet would have to be seated in the casing to allow for crimping such that the OAL would most likely be ok, but I do not know if there is depth enough in the case for seating.  Looks like I will have to find the smaller Lyman in this series.  Thanks, still hoping for others with some experience with this bullet.

[Herbert]

if you are talking about the lyman 515141 mould bullet it is the only one i have been able to get decent acuracy in my armi sports spencer rifle its 1-20 twist rate needs a longer bullet for acuracy Hoot put me onto it and it realy makes a big difrence in the rifle,trouble with it when seated to good feeding lenth 1.66 inch you can only get 30to 32gr ff pouder in case, it douse have a small meplat you can increase this by preasure of seating,i back of my compresion diea and put presure on the bullet for the final1/10 inch this works well with 31 gr wano or swiss ff pouder,meplat now measures 0.24 inch,this round feeds well through the magizine and is very acurate in the rifle,as the carbine has a slower twist rate 1-26 it will work with a shorter bullet that you could get more pouder in,but if you have the 56-50 rifle acuracy at 100 yards is terible with the shorter bullets,this has been confirmed by others as well as me before

[Hell-Er High Water]

There have been several posts here about suitable bullets for use in the 56-50, reproduction Spencers.

I use either the Rapine 512-350-T bullet or the Modified Lee bullet from moulds as sold by Dakota Widowmaker.

When I first developed the modified Lee bullet it was for precisely the reason stated by Trailrider.  A magazine right under my chin, with ammo loaded with bullets with a small meplate was not the chance I was willing to take.  In addition, you may have to seat the Lyman bullet so deep to function through the action that the base of it bulges the case as it gets into the thicker web area of the case.  In my opinion, this is not a good choice for the 56-50.

Check back in the archives here and you will find lots of good info.

HHW

[Herbert]

if you size the bullet to .512 it drops to seating depth,does not bulg the case,if you have the rifle it is the only bulet you can get good acuracy with,the carbine will take a slitly shorter bullet

[.56/50 Iron]

CCI makes a primer with a harder primer cup: The #34 large rifle primer was designed to fend off stray firing pin impacts caused by closing bolts that did not have firing pins with springs. Under inertia, the firing pin would come out and ding the primer a bit. Did not always set the cartridge off (slam fire), in fact it seldom did, but it never hurts to be safe. I would think that a combination of the very flat pointed bullet and a CCI #34 primer would make this problem no worry at all. Best solution is to seat your primer so that it is below the surface of the base of the casing. Has there been an incident lately where a magazine has let go? Actually, any of the lever guns would be a concern. Not a pleasant thought.
.56/50 Iron

[Grapeshot]

I purchased a 56-50 Armi from GA dealer (700 including shipping and transfer, as new, original owner could not bring himself to purchase ammo, wow) and am awaiting arrival (you know the dance, shipper wants FFL from transfer agent who wants shiipers FFL first, and I don't have either). 

I have been reloading and shooting a 50-70 for 30 years (repro Sharps 59 conversion) using the 440 gr lyman bullet sized to 509.  It is very accurate in the faux Sharps at any reasonable range.  This bullet is a flat point but not a large flat by any means.

Has anyone used this bullet in the 56-50 and does it load to short enough length to function?  Using smokeless powder only here.  Also hope to find Trailboss loads for this weight.  Thanks in advance, Captn Jack.

That bullet is longer than you need it.  Yes, it can be used, but as a single shot only.  From experience I used them to get a feel on how my Spencer shot.  But I could not load a decent charge and seat that 450 grain conical deep enough to operate the action.  You will have to acquire a 350 grain mould, Lyman or any other reputable maker, to be able to use your Spencer as a repeater.

[Herbert]

in my spencer rifle i have no trouble with feeding with this bullet as long as the OAL is no more than .623 inch,i have been loading 30gr wano FF and it is the only bullet that i can get any acuray at 100 meters with my rifle,this is a compresed load so the nose is flatened a bit more .25 inch

[Hoot-3rd Ga]

Capt'n Jack:  The first issue with the bullet you described is that it's sized diameter (.509") is too small to shoot accurately in an Armisport Spencer.  It might even be a problem trying to crimp it into a 56-50 case. I recommend a hard cast bullet sized to .516" for the Armisport Spencer rifles /carbines. The Lyman mould # 515141 is advertised to cast out at 425 grs. and in a hot mould will throw a .516" bullet. The flat on the nose of this bullet is .210" (3/8") the same diameter as a W-W large rifle primer. The Spencer is not a heavy recoiling rifle containing a maximum of 32grs.  black powder when using a bullet this long, so I don't see any possibility of the nose of one round crushing the entire width of a large rifle primer in the cartridge in front of it enough to set it off. (Note: I said using black powder) As with any reloaded round , you must inspect each cartridge to prevent any high primers from being loaded into your Spencer......Also do not use pistol primers...  All this being said, each man must do what he considers prudent. The accuracy of this bullet is outstanding at 50 and 100 yds..   My use of the Armisport Spencer rifle is solely for N-SSA target shooting paper at 50 and 100 yds and breaking tile and clays at the same distance. For hunting, you will have to settle for a less accurate, lighter bullet to increase powder capacity and keep your shooting ranges closer in.     Hoot-3rd Ga

[Arizona Trooper]

Hoot, When we shot together on Joe's team the year before the Coastal Rifles got started, I was shooting a cut down Lyman 515141 in my regular skirmish carbine. I machined off the back of the mold so that it cast a 2 groove bullet at 375 grains. I have shot that bullet in 50 cal. Spencers since the late 1970s. It can be very accurate. The full length 50-70 bullet doesn't leave much room for powder, and the old Dixie cases would swage down the bottom driving band to about .50" on loading, which didn't help accuracy any! In a thin wall case, they shoot well but velocity is pretty slow. With the shorter bullet, you can cram in 45 grains of FF (with a powder compression die) just in case you want to take your Spencer hunting.

If you push a few rounds in the magazine tube and look through the slot, you'll see that the bullets do not rest exactly nose to base. They are cocked over a bit, so that the flat rests about half on the cartridge base and half on the primer, even with the smallish nose flat. Be sure to seat your primers fully and never use pistol primers, you shouldn't have any problem.   

[Herbert]

i to have been yousing a 375gr .520 boolit in a original spencer carbine since the late 70s and am hapy with it ,but it will not preform in my new armi sports rifle,though it is beter than the shorter boolits i have tried,i luve to youse the lyman515-139D340dr boolit but acuracy in the 1 in 20 inch twist barell is hopless

[Hoot-3rd Ga]

Arizona: Pleased to hear from you. I cannot connect your forum name to a face, but no matter. I am glad we got to skirmish together, no matter how briefly. Like you, I was going to mention that it is unlikely the nose of one round would line up perfectly in the buttstock magazine of a Spencer, since it is a possibility no matter how infrequently, I thought I would just leave that out.    Hoot

Herbert: I agree with you 100%. For years and thousands of rounds, I tried to come up with a cartridge that would be accurate in my Spencer using a short 350 gr. bullet.  The only thing that worked was to have Hoyt reline the barrel with a different twist. ($125 at the time) By using the longer Lyman 425 gr. bullet, the factory barrel works just fine. It would be nice to have more powder capacity, but accuracy is my biggest requirement.  Hope your Christmas went well!   Hoot