Post-Civil War Era Shotgun

[Logan Hawke]

What would be a correct scattergun for the era from the Civil War to say 1870 or so? I see that Cabelas has Black Powder Double Barrels in 10, 12, and 20 ga......are these realistic of this time period? I know the 20 ga. wouldn't be. I am fairly familiar with the handguns and rifles as far as different time periods but I don't ever hear or see a lot on shotguns.

I know alot of us, including me, use the Stoeger Coach Guns but I wanted to get a little deeper into authenticity and learn more.

[Will Ketchum]

The muzzle loading shotgun stayed popular for many years after the coming of the breech loaders.  During the Civil War it was very popular with the Southern cavalry.  NCOWS Pistoleer class where the shooters use C&B revolvers and either a 66 or Henry rifle they use ML shotguns and shoot only 2 shots no matter what the stage calls for.

Hope this helps.

Will Ketchum

[Professor Marvel]

Greetings Monsiuer Hawke -
You might be interested in the Simpson Ltd.  website that has a number of antique side-by-sides, especially this
guild pinfire http://tinyurl.com/9lcto9. If you click on the Husqvarna link on the left bar you will find a whole bunch more.
The pinfires were amongst the first transitions from percussion to cartridge in the shotgun world.

yhs
Prof Marvel

[Dr. Bob]

A breech loading 10 or 12 gauge shotgun with external hammers would be appropriate.  Parke began making them in 1867.  They did not begin making hammerless models until bout 1891. [Flayderman's  5th Edition]  Hammerless guns were available in the 1880's but were not common.

As Will said, the ML double was still in wide use into the early 20th Century.  The TNN hammer coach gun has a good reputation.  12 gauge will be a lot cheaper to shoot.

[Major 2]

1878 TTN    Two thumbs up ! I'd say 28" incher over coach...

Mine has functioned flawlessly for 3 years

['Monterrey' Jack Brass]

Logan H,

As Will Ketchum stated muzzle-loaders stayed popular for years after breech loaders became common. Muzzle loading shot guns were sold as new-made items during and through the rise of the breech-loading shot gun as is shown in at least some mail-order sporting goods catalogs of the era (L. Barber & Co 1875, Henry Sears & Co 1879, Homer Fisher 1880, J. H. Johnston Great Western Gun Works 1882, Hodgkins & Haigh 1883, E. Remington & Sons 1887, John P. Lovell Arms Co 1890).

As usual there are interesting exceptions to the general trend. For example, the 1864 Schuyler, Harley & Graham catalog shows two early breech loading shot guns for sale, a leFaucheux and a Poultnery & Sneider, though these took a somewhat more complicated type of shell than later breech loaders. Also, to add to the mix, the 1873 E. Remington & Sons catalog shows an early pump action Spencer repeating shot gun, price on request. So even with common shot gun trends there are interesting and innovative exceptions that keep things interesting.

Of course, though common in the 1870s, a muzzle loading shot gun is not a practical choice for CAS activities though I'd venture to say it could be a lot of fun to load on the clock (RCJ – you want to give this a try...?). Dr Bob's general timeline of hammer vs hammerless is a great synopsis and going with a hammer gun would be a solid choice for you as they were, arguably, the most represented breech loading shot gun for the 1870s/80s and a solid choice for your authenticity interests.

An added touch would be to get a long-barreled hammer gun and shoot black powder shells - if you get an original hammer gun I'd shoot blackpowder no matter what to be on the safe side. As coach/sawed-off guns are ubiquitous at CAS events, seeing a long barreled gun is a nice change. I get some interesting looks when I take out my full-length original Worthington Arms hammered double 12 ga – I think it's true that I actually am ½ way to the targets with that gun!

Final note: 12 ga hammer gun is an excellent choice and going with black powder and brass shells sealed with sodium silicate (aka 'water glass') or roll-crimped cardboard shells would be icing on the cake in your quest for an authentic shotgun vibe.

Good luck and please report back what shot gun you come up with.

YMH&OS,

Brass

[Montana Slim]

For historical purposes, I match my C&B pistols with and 1866 Rifle or Carbine and use a hammered SxS. One is an old Eclipse Meteor w/ 30" barrels. I like it a lot, but it gets hot to handle in some events. I also have a Chinese-made hammered (real hammers) coach gun. It has a larger forearm and doesn't get hot to handle when I shoot some of the shotgun-nightmare stages at my local SASS club (BTW, I like shotgun-nightmare scenarios).

Also, note that NCOWS "Pistoleer" category allows hammered cartridge shotguns as well. But you'll only need two-shots max per stage. This allows a ML shotgun to be used as well.

Regards,
Slim

[Fox Creek Kid]

The first commercially mass produced CARTRIDGE shotgun was the Remington 1873 Model. Before then there smatterings from small producers but they were expensive (more than a Winchester rifle), hence the vast majority of shotguns were ML'ers well into the late 19th century. This is covered extensively in "Firearms of the Old West" Vol. II.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Heres an older thread where ML shotguns in CAS were discussed.  It caused me to experiment with making paper cartridges for the muzzleloading scattergun.  I'm not suggesting that muzzleloaders be reloaded on the clock, as that requires skill & practice to do safely.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,8870.0.html

[Logan Hawke]

Thanks for the link Sir Charles.