Any preference or advantage?

[Dirty Brass]

I'm wandering off course here and contemplating an open top cartridge gun. Don't really want to do the cylinder conversion thing on my present C&B guns, but rather buy one new. Is there any preference over the '72 open top or the RM? Can anyone shed some light on the pro's and con's of each model, or suggest a different model to consider? I shoot mainly Cimarron guns, but I have an open mind.....

[Mako]

Brass Magnet,
If you want to be esoteric the 71/72 Open Top models are not actually conversions, they were made by Colt as cartridge guns from the git go.  They are all very similar, they are four primary differences in the models Uberti makes for the various importers:

• Sights - The current conversion models all have their rear sights on the Hammer as did the originals. The Open Top has their rear sights on the barrel as did the original.  No one is making the Richards Type 1 conversion  model  right now which would be the exception in the rear sight.
• Grips – You have to decide if you want Navy (shorter, and carried over to the SAA Colt) or the longer Army style grip which first appeared on the 1860 model.
• '51 or '60 model Conversions – You have to decide if you want a Navy model size pistol or Army.  The '51s have the octagonal barrels and the '60 Army models have the round barrels.  All 71/72 Open Top models have round barrels and you can get them in either Navy or Army grip lengths.
• Caliber – You can only get the conversions on the '51 frame in .38 caliber, which is actually close to being the correct caliber.  You can get all of the others in anything from .38 Spl, .44 Spl to .45 Colt  (or .45 Schofield on some).

There are some differences in firing pins, cylinder hands and the length of the cocking stroke of the hammer.  Uberti has made all of the afore mentioned pistols with cylinder gas shields unlike the originals (which only the Open Top had them) so that issue is moot.  They all pretty much fit the same holsters except I will tell you the Open Tops are a bit narrower, are truer to the original dimensions than any of the Army model conversions which are all a bit oversize.  The '51 conversions are pretty true to size.


The correct answer for what you need is simply, which grip feels good in your hand, what caliber do you want and most importantly which looks the best to you?

Regards,
Mako

[Dirty Brass]

Thanks Mako for the info. Looks like I have to narrow down some choices. I have a '51 Navy and a '60 Army and I prefer the grips on the 1860, but the 1851 is somewhat smaller and easier to handle IMHO. I'd lean towards the larger smooth barrel for this gun and larger grips. Two things need deliberating on I guess. Caliber and which model. I like the looks of the shield on the R.M conversion models, but I like the rear sights on the barrel for the '72 open top. From what I see in the catalog the '72 doesn't have the added on look of the shield, but rather forged in like modern guns. Not sure I like that better.

Has either model proved more dependable or shootable? Looking for opinions - before I move on this....

Thanks again in advance.....

[Major 2]

as an owner of both...and a fan of the 1860
Your only real questions are which grip...and what caliber
I too perfur the Army grips...but I like my 51 R&M too. 

So that leaves caliber ....there again the 38 is sweet but so is the 44 OT...

If you going 38 then get the 51 R&M , if 44 ,45 or 45 Schofield is your cup the Type II Richards , RM or Open Top
For myself I have a 51 RM and a 2nd Gen 51 Navy & 2 Type I's , 2 Second gen Colt 1860's (1 is converted with an R&D drop in)
And the Open Top....

only issue on some OT's is the fireing pin, with heavy use they were mushrooming or bending...
easy fix with The Smith Shop replacement...

[Dirty Brass]

Once again thanks for the input and feedback. I'm more of a big-bore shooter, so looks like I'm 95% sure I'm gonna go with 44 SPCL or 45 LC - probably do 44 SPCL, which limits my choices. Quess I'll sleep on it for a day or two......Thanks Again!

[Abilene]

Brassmagnet, a couple of points regarding grip availability on various models:

Opentops: 7 1/2" models come with both Army and Navy grips.  4 3/4" and 5 1/2" come only with Navy grips.

1851 Richards-Mason (.38 only, octagonal barrel, any length): Navy grip only

1860 Richards-Mason and Type II Richards, any barrel length or caliber: Army grip only

[Dirty Brass]

Well, I decided on which one to get (sorta) They had a Type ll Richards 8" in 44 Spcl., so I ordered that one, and then I got to thinking, might as well se if they had an Open Top in 44 Spcl. with the Army grips. Well, no such luck - but they had it in 45 Colt. Drats! Oh well, I load for two OMV's in .45 cal., so what the heck. I'll just have to make sure I don't load too hot for the '72 OT. Really looking forward to getting and shooting these!

I want to thank everyone for the info and replies. It helped me make a decision that was becoming quite difficult 

On a side note - I got my son a 1861 Navy model in .44 for X-mas, and we got him rolling about a week ago shooting Triple 7 loads. Set him up with the basic capper tool, powder measure, loading stand, and a cow(bull) horn I got from an uncles farm back in '87 that I cooked out and made a powder horn out of. He was, to say the least, all smiles. I'll add a pic later if I can pull it off a video we took. We had all kinds of weapons, from F/A down to trapdoors, and in all honesty, we had as much fun with the BP stuff we shot as with anything else. At least I and my two sons did!   

Son on his .44 C&B ....



Shooter on the original trapdoor & BP...



short clip of two Vaqueros on BP

http://home.roadrunner.com/~tlcguns/omvbattle.mpg

[Mako]

Brassmagnet,
Who had Type IIs in stock in .44 Spl?
~Mako

[Dirty Brass]

I ordered direct from Cimarron with my FFL.....not sure if they had a good supply on hand or not, but........

I also tried to get a conversion cylinder for my 1858, but they had none, as well as being out of the OT in 44 Spcl. ( the fella said to me "zero for two - wanna try a third ?" [chuckle] They had plenty of OTs in 45 caliber though....

[Abilene]

Brassmagnet, I wonder if they have shipped your order yet?  They have .44 Colt Opentops with Army grip.  The cylinder could be reamed to .44 Spcl before shipping (it would delay your order a bit, I'd probably be the one to ream it and I won't be there this week).

Mako, they have had .44 Spcl Type II's since you got yours, they got a bunch on that shipment.  Last week there were 8 left.

[Mako]

Brassmagnet, I wonder if they have shipped your order yet?  They have .44 Colt Opentops with Army grip.  The cylinder could be reamed to .44 Spcl before shipping (it would delay your order a bit, I'd probably be the one to ream it and I won't be there this week).

Mako, they have had .44 Spcl Type II's since you got yours, they got a bunch on that shipment.  Last week there were 8 left.

Abilene,
That's good news, there have been several people looking for them.  Thanks for the update.
Regards,
Mako

[Dirty Brass]

Brassmagnet, I wonder if they have shipped your order yet?  They have .44 Colt Opentops with Army grip.  The cylinder could be reamed to .44 Spcl before shipping (it would delay your order a bit, I'd probably be the one to ream it and I won't be there this week).

Mako, they have had .44 Spcl Type II's since you got yours, they got a bunch on that shipment.  Last week there were 8 left.

The order shipped already. As a matter of fact, I'll be picking it up this morning from UPS - I missed the delivery yesterday afternoon....too bad I hadn't posted this earlier and found out you/they could get one reamed out - I would have waited for the work and had both guns in one caliber....thanks for the suggestion/offer though! 

UPDATED LATER TODAY

I picked the two items up. They are absolutely immaculate! Well made and well finished! I like the '72 OT more than I expected I would - too bad I couldn't get the 44 Spcl model, but I'm sure the 45 will work The RM Type ll is great! Can't wait to shoot these honeys!

I think I have finished out my collection now (well....at least for the time being, until my $$ tree matures and bears fruit again)

Here they are - I'm sure you've seen them before, but these are to pretty not to show them off a little! lol