cabelas quigley sharps......

[James Hunt]

Nothing wrong with a Pedersoli - or a Ford for that matter. 

Life is a hierarchy. True with auto's, guns and IQ's. With regard to the latter I wish I was higher on the food chain, but you make the best of what you got.

While courtesy is a necessity for civilized living and internet message boards, polite honesty serves all best. So I think what we are saying is that Pedersoli is a fine rifle, the Big Timber guns are however better quality in terms of fit, finish and competitive outcome. And as the Italian guns increase in price and begin to reach the level of the American guns as is the case when special doodads or the name Quigley is associated with them, it is reasonable to discuss the advantages of pouring in a bit more money for the value obtained. I would be happy to own an IAB if it shot well, really grateful for the pleasure of shooting a Pedersoli, and ecstatic to caress an American Sharps.

Such a discussion may mean that a potential buyer only has to make one purchase to get what he really wants. I wish someone had done that  for me.

[Ace Lungger]

US Soldier, I first and foremost, what to thank you for what you are doing! You are over there risking your like 24/7 so that the rest of us can injoy the U.S.A. and what it stands for!
I think the goverment should buy you what ever Sharps rifle your heart desires and give it to you, but they won't. I must tell you, that I am new to the Sharps game. So now it is back to the issuse at hand.First I have never had my hands on a C.Sharps or a Shiloh Sharps, I have handled a Pedersoli, ad it was a dream boat, there wasn't anyrhing about it I didn't like. The first thing i would do, would be to sit down and look at what you want out of your Sharp's! Second thing I would do is not order one! I would want to put my hands on it, look it over, see if you like the feel and the balance. I must tell you, I own the cheapest of the Sharps made, I own two of them! But I shoot for me and me only!If I had more money that I could spend I would go to Big Timber Montana, and pick and feel every Sharp's the 2 companies had, and buy the one I liked best! But it's name doesn't mean it is a shooter! There are a lot of factor involed. The first and most important thing is having a good barrel!! And now the second most imporrtant thing is sights, and the cheapest good sights front and rear will cost around $400.00.  If you have a good barrel and good Sights  then you can make a shooter out of it! And there is where it gets complicated!!! As was mentioned above these guns were designed to shoot Black Powder, not smokeless! And if you are going to hunt with it, like others above  have told you, you most likely make any of them shoot a smokeless power cartidge shoot decent out to 200yds.
But if you are wanting a 45-70 that will shoot tight groups, you will have to reload Black Powder, and come up with  a load that will shoot in your gun! And that is no easy job! I have been reloading smokeless power ammo for 32 years and  own several progessive loaders and single stage loaders, trimmers and the works! But when I went to loading Black Powder, I had to forget 90% of my knowledge and start over, and I am not close yet to getting what I want!
Remember I told you I was new to Sharps and black Powder, but not new to shooting or hunting! One of the prettiest sites I remember is sitting on top of a mountain looking acrossed the mouth of the Mamouth river in Northern B.C.looking over into the Yukon, and spotting my 56" wide spread Moose that i killed, but I wasn't shooting a Sharps!
figure out your funds, your needs, if you plan on keeping the rifle all your life, and what you want to do with the rifle! It doesn't matter what you buy, the people on this forum will help you threw any problems that you come up with, when it comes to shooting a Sharps! I will leave you with something to think on, I do not know this for fact, the rumor going around, is that a well know Gun Smith Lee Shaver, has went back to shooting BPCR meets, and shooting the brand I own, IAB, and has won several matches! It is just what I told you, good barrel good sights, perfect load.
i hope in some way, I have lifted the burden off of you, so that you can make the right choice for you!
Later
ACE

[drcook]

First and foremost NEVER, EVER buy a Pedersoli anymore unless you are there in person and have another
with you to be a second set of eyes or an iron clad guarantee you can return it. This is a story I repeat over and over. I returned a Pedersoli Roller to Cabelas because the barrel was not screwed on and indexed correctly. Of course the front sight was
canted to the side. Cabelas personnel brought a stack of them out so we could go through and finally find
one that was installed correctly. 1 out of all that Cabelas had in stock is not good odds.

I wrote a letter to Italy and got a personnal letter of apology and explaining what had happened. All the
rifles are proofed and then disassembled and then put back together. Are they getting the correct
barrels on the right recievers ? Who know. Mr Pedersoli is very much a gentleman, you can tell by the
language in the letter. He explained that the people in his factory simply were getting lazy. They are
just factory workers as opposed to the entire staff at Shiloh who are craftsmen.

Now with that said, Pedersoli is building rifles for a particular price point. Just like a production line
Remington etc. A custom bolt gun is as expensive as a Shiloh. As stated above, its the shipping and
the exchange rate that is driving up the cost.

I STILL have a Pedersoli sharps. Selling it to my friend. NOT because it won't shoot well, but because it
WILL. He needs a rifle to shoot silhoeutte and I threw together some loads. No tuning, just the same
load I shoot in my CPA Stevens. The gun shot a 1 1/2 inch 100 yd 12 or 15 shot group. It will do
better with tuning.

If I had kept it, I was going to strip the stock and foreend and re-finish. I would thin the pistol grip
down and change the contouts. The stocks are contoured for a production line process.

The are a couple changes that Pedersoli could make and then their rifles would rank right alongside
any of the custom U.S. builders. But then the price would be equal to or greater than whats built here
You just can't over that trip across the pond.

Now if a person can get hold of a Pedersoli action and have it rebarrelled into say a Badgersoli (I stole
that term, cause I liked it), a really sweet rifle can be had. I screwed up by waiting too long to
make a decision when Dixie had Pedersoli sharps actions with buttstock and forearms for sale for 695.00
I am still kicking myself.

Another mistake people do is buying a sharps rifle on looks or without thought as too how they are
going to be used. I see those kinds of rifles all the time on gunbroker etc. You can always tell a
mistake rifle by the phrase "only shot less than 25 times". The rifle was either too light for the caliber
or way to heavy for the intended purpose. They turned into expensive wall hangers or safe queens
and then the only people that buy them next are doing the same thing, making a mistake.

regards
dc

[Delmonico]

Dr. Cook, a lot of folks buy a Sharps because they think they look cool when the watch Quigley, then the buy one and find out they don't have the slightest idea what to do with it and heaven forbid, they find out they have to cast and load and use black to really get what they want.  Also a lot find out they ain't that much fun as long as your local range has a max of a 100 yards they can shoot and no hope of finding a place to really shoot with out a long travel.

As for custom guns, I have seen more folks order one and not be happy with what they got than with production guns, I've seen many of them have to be returned several times to get it right, won't meantion any names, but one was from a long time company being operated by the second generation and in buissness for about 50 years.

No I don't not mean someone who puts AAA grade fancy feather crotch Mulberry on a gun and engraves fancy naked ladies on the metal, but companies that build and promise guns that shoot tiny little groups.

BTW I've never seen where fancy wood that cost a lot of money made a gun shoot better, but I guess I have different ideas as to what I want out of a gun.  Also hate to take fancy wood out in the rain, sleet and snow.

My Pedersoli needed some work, and it was work I could do, never have seen a production gun that didn't need work.  But my work cost me only time and materials, maybe 20 dollars cash.  Yep every moving part has been polishes as slick as a custom gun, the fore-end fits right.  Some can not do this kind of work, as I tell folks if you have to ask, don't.   A buddy borrowed it a couple years ago to hunt prairie dogs.  When he picked it up he was so impressed by the trigger he stopped at the local smith he worked part time for and they played with the trigger and gauged it.  Was set to 1 ounce and will not drop unless you pull the trigger.   The smith said the only trigger he ever seen that was nicer was a Jewell like a lot of guys use on bench guns.

The worst thing about the Pedersoli sights are the slop and the windage is a bit hard to set, if you fix the slop they won't have the problem with shooting to slightly different groups like from the factory.  Again if you have to ask, don't, too many folks have not got damn good skills with files, stones and the like, seen more folks ruin stuff than fix it, mostly folks who have never worked in an industry that requires them to have such skills, not something you can learn overnight.   

As for windage, set it right on a day with no wind and leave it alone, judge the wind the old time way.

[drcook]

Only 2 of my rifles have slightly upgraded wood. The rest are plain janes.

It's a shame that Pedersoli has labor issues at times. It gives the company a bad rap. They have a
good product that before the Euro ran up in price, gave folks a real cost effective solution to the custom
arms makers here. 

Over in Europe and in Australia Pedersoli's are what give the shooters over the pond and down under a
chance. Shilohs and C. Sharps are quite expensive to export and take over there.

So don't take what I had to say above as an attack on the product, its a truism due to labor issues.
Unfortunately there are too many of them with the barrels not on correctly. Hopefully the problems
have been addressed. Based on the tone of the letter I got back, I beleive somewhat they were.

I have actually worked with them in the past concerning a change to a product design. Here is the link to where Dick
Trenk discussed the rifle that I dealt with the factory about

http://groups.msn.com/BPCR/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=19441&LastModified=4675508903871585141

I still get a catalogue mailed to me from Italy. Thats kinda neat and I get to see stamps from Italy.

also

Pedersoli also has come out with a highwall. Here is a link to the picture of it over at cherrys

http://www.cherrys.com/pedpics/S804_S805b.jpg

Dick Trenk solicited opinions of folks over on the BPCR boards and took the results back to Italy. They
are now producing one of the most cost effective, slick highwalls available. I just wish they had been
able to the double set triggers into production. They (under a venture with Uberti - they supply sharps
to uberti) take Uberti highwall actions, redo the heat treat/color case, and put their wood and barrels.
With Meachams out of the reach of the average person (last I looked, base base was a penny under 5000.00) and the issues
that are sometimes encountered with the other place in Big Timber Mt. these highwalls are very welcome.

Even with the single set trigger, these rifles make good competition rifles.

and drcook = david r. not dr. :-) but thanks for the compliment 

regards
dc

[Delmonico]

Some of the American compaines have had labor problems at times also and quality suffers, Winchester comes to mind and we all know what the result was there.

[Cyrille]

This may sound a bit "over the top" but I purchased my  1874 Sharps Pedersoli from my local gun shop, not a big name company, other than the manufactuer and have not regreted my purchase one little bit.
  I consider the Big Timber Montana Sharps to be the "Rolls Royce" of Sharps model rifles, and the Pedersoli as perhaps the Lincoln town car of the Ford Line of cars. The Rolls may have better cosmedics and a smoother ride and perhaps a quiter engine but given the same amount of TLC both will preform well.

[Pitspitr]

When I bought my Cabelas/Pedersoli I gave $800 for it and a Shilo would have cost $3000. Everybody told me I'd regret it and that someday I'd want a Shilo. Well, yeah I guess I do want a shilo (as well as about 20 other makes and models ) but not because my Pedersoli isn't any good. I cussed the gun for a while until I put a RHO scope on it (cost almost as much as the rifle) and found out there wasn't anything wrong with the rifle other than the cheap sights and my eyes. It'll shoot as well or better than I can. I guess the resale on a Pedersoli isn't very good, but that doesn't make much difference to me since mine isn't for sale anyway.

[Ranch 13]

3k  :ofor a shilo would involve a bunch of add ons over and above the standard rifle. Even in the new catalog a "Quigley" model with the included engraving and sights doesn't go much over the 3k mark.

There are a number of rea good deals on Shilos on gunbroker right now. Seems some folks ordered em and now think maybe they don't need em anymore.

[Pitspitr]

Remember, this was over 10 years ago, when they were saying that there was a 3 year wait on them.

[Grogan]

Remember, this was over 10 years ago, when they were saying that there was a 3 year wait on them.

And it was often closer to 5 yr.s!  (Don't ask me how I know!  )

[Cyrille]

Don't worry I wouldn't dream of prying. I am not on the "need to know list".