Parallel test planned - UMC 45 Colt design vs PRS 45-250 RNFP Big Lube™

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks to w44wcf, I've now been able to learn exactly what the original UMC 45 Colt ammunition was loaded with.  He posted photos over on TOR in his fine thread on testing original 45 Colt ammo in rifles.

I'm working on a firing test that parallels the original test done by Pigeonroost Slim.  I wanted to see the overall shape of the bullet you were generous enough to shoot and report for posterity.  I know that I can't come up with enough of those original projectiles to shoot for a test, but I thought I'd use a very similar mold that is readily available.  Photos below.

Even though those original UMC 45 Colt bullets weren't designed for tube magazine rifles, they to appear to have a somewhat flat metplat.  That being the case, I feel that the bullets pictured below will give similar ballistic coefficients.  The twin lube grove bullet will carry lube volume similar to the UMC originals.  The other, PRS 45-250 RNFP Big Lube™ single groove design, will carry about Five times the lube volume.  I feel that it will be informative to test both rifles and pistols in a controlled study.

I'm not sure how soon this test will be run, but in the meantime I invite comments and suggestions.  From here forward I'll run this new thread so as to not hijack the one run by w44wcf, even though they do cover similar items.  Again, I do appreciate the bullet photo and data.

DD-DLoS

[Sgt. Jake]

    Dick  It should be interesting and Ill be eagerly awaiting the results,I often quote you 'Theres learning going on hear'   !!   Thanks also for the heads up on the TOR posting,thats the most informative posting Ive read in quite a while. Between John Boy and the Mad Monk of Black Powder, WOW!!                     Adios  Sgt. Jake

[Cuts Crooked]

DD,

I think thast test has been done already. I cast a bunch of  Big Lube 250grs and a bunch of those lyman 454190s for a friend a year or so back so that they could be compared in a side by side test. It's out there on the web somewhere. I know he used to post on tor.

[Dick Dastardly]

That's good news Cuts.  Could you pm me the particulars and I'll look him up with a search engine.

Thanks,

DD-DLoS

[w44wcf]

DD,

I have compared the 250 PRS & the 454190 bullets in my '94 Marlin Cowboy Ltd., and at 50 yds., in my particular gun, the PRS will shoot better 5 shot groups (1 1/2" vs 2 1/2") using a 40 gr. charge of FFG.  I think that part of the reason is that the 454190 has no forward driving band (having been developed for a pistol) nor crimp groove to help push the fouling out of the barrel from the previous shot like the PRS 250.

By comparison, the .44-40 bullet having first been developed for a rifle, has a forward driving band which helps in that regard and thus does shoot very well in my .44-40 rifle.

RCBS makes a 250 gr. .45 Colt bullet that is like the 454190 except that it has a forward driving band to push the fouling out from the previous shot. It will also outshoot the 454190 in my rifle. Accuracy is on par with the PRS 250 @ 50 yards.

LONG DISTANCE SHOOTING
For long distance shooting (330 yards) I have found that the smaller meplat of the RCBS bullet is key to it's accuracy at that distance. The wider meplat of the PRS 250 causes it to spread out over a 4-5 ft area at that range the same as the Lee 255 gr. smokeless bullet. My rifle has the 1/38 twist. A faster twist barrel may give better results.

I'll add a pic later of the various bullets.   

Found the link to which Cuts referred to. Quite a test!
http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=5476.0

w44wcf

[w44wcf]

The RCBS bullet that I mentioned is in the pic below.
l to r  454190   RCBS   RCBS-w   Magma-w   PRS "Big Lube"

-w - modified by w44wcf

I used the RCBS-w bullet and 40 grs. Swiss FFG in my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy Rifle to hit the 
steel javelina swinger at 300 meters a few years back.


w44wcf

[w44wcf]

Here's the two bullets that DD will be testing....
left- 454190    right - PRS aka "Big Lube"


w44wcf

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for the photos w44wcf,

I also have a batch of Remignton swaged cup base bullets on their way here now.  Thanks Pete!  I'm getting some of the 454190s made up now and I have a good supply of PRS 45-250s.  So, this is becoming a Three way test.  Now, for some loading and then the long wait for warm weather.  At least warm enough that I don't have to shoot with gloves on.

I'm thinkn' that I will shoot Five shots with a clean gun, then a long set to dirty the barrel and then, a final target from a fouled barrel.  I'd do this for each set.  Let's face it, shooting from a clean gun proves little to SASS shooters.  They want to know that their "dirty" guns will shoot accurately and function well.

Anyway, that's the way it stands now.

I appreciate all the valuable input I've been getting and will make best use of it.

DD-DLoS

[Wills Point Pete]

 Dick, I forgot to ask, you do have some wads for this operation, right? If not I can drop some in the mail.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Pete,

I'll be fine with just the bullets.  I've got all the other stuff.  I'm watching for your package.

DD-DLoS

[w44wcf]

DD,
I'm wondering if it would be best to wait for warmer weather (spring) before running your tests(?). I have not tested any of my b.p. loads for accuracy / fouling in cold weather but am thinking that the cold lube would not work as well in the Winter as it would a few months later  unless the cartridges were somehow kept at 65 F+ up until the time they were fired. 

Thoughts? 

w44wcf

[john boy]

I'm wondering if it would be best to wait for warmer weather (spring) before running your tests(?).

Yo Dick - your out voted 2 to 1 ... w44wcf will need company and a spotter at Ridgway!  And Spring just happens to coincide with my semi annual visit with Homer

[john boy]

PS:  Forgot to add ... have the 452190 mold and would be more that happy to fly some along with the PRS loads in my '60 Henry with 40gr of FFg.  Was the brand of powder decided on?