200 yard shoot

[Herbert]

 :)has anybody shot 200 yards with armi spencer inerested in wat loads were yousd 200 meters is the only match i can shoot at my club in black pouder cartrige events i use an original bernside spencer with centerfire block load 39 gr PP wano milk carton wad rapine 520-375 bullet starline brass it groups around 6 to 8 inches depending on my vision on the day incerdently i have never had trouble with egection in original with starline brass i was warned i might

[Fox Creek Kid]

Herbert, I'll assume you are in a foreign country from your English. Welcome.   

200 meters is a long way for these primitive sights and the only way one will know how their gun shoots is to shoot it at these distances. The sights are almost totally worthless for precise aimed shots at over 100 m in my opinion. I've never shot mine past 50 yds. as I always lure the Indians into a false sense of security before I unlimber the Spencer. 

[Herbert]

i have opend up the back sight a litle and sloted a brass in the front and have no trouble keeping my shots in the black at 200 meters on a 50 meter smoothbore target we youse for 200 meter black pouder cartrige shoot with my origianl spencer carbine i have read that ohio volunteer sharpshooters yoused them to shoot 700 yards acoss the tennessee river at the 18 th kentucky keping 600 at bay and afterwards learned that they had killed and wounded over thirty with the loss of one man wounded not bad shooting against pepard posions even over two weeks dont have any beter sucess today

[Fox Creek Kid]

i have read that ohio volunteer sharpshooters yoused them to shoot 700 yards acoss the tennessee river at the 18 th kentucky keping 600 at bay and afterwards learned that they had killed and wounded over thirty with the loss of one man wounded not bad shooting against pepard posions even over two weeks dont have any beter sucess today

There is a lot of difference between precision aimed fire and lobbing rounds at a mass group such as a regiment with "covey" shots. 

[Herbert]

it was sniper verses sniper fire

[Herbert]

i have reread the letter of captain barber fist battalian of ohia volunteer sharpshooters november 8,1863 . I got it wrong about them shooting at the 18 kentucky that would have been frendly fire they replaced the 18 th who had been skirmishing with 600 rebels for 2 days armed with the enfield rifle and had lost 3 men with no afect on the enemay.The ohio sharpshooters had 125 men.Whot i am tring to say is thees old rifles are more capable than people think try one at 200 yards you will probly suprise yourself

[Two Flints]

Nice friendly exchange here

Herbert,

From your first post, you mentioned an Armi Sport Spencer as the one you wanted to shoot for long distance and then compared it to the original Spencers, maybe that is part of the problem; the original Spencers were/are better made for long distance shooting?  Don't recall the differences in barrel twist from the original to the reproduction Spencers.  That could be an important factor in long distance accuracy, as well as the sights.

Just my two cents   BTW FCK, Herbert is from Australia!

Two Flints

[Trailrider]

(I never have, but...) Has anyone tried shooting a Thompson submachine gun (or the modern semi-auto versions) at 200 yds?  The Spencer and the Henry M1860 Repeating Rifle were intended for firepower at short ranges (probably no further than 100 yds, and 75 yards was probably the maximum EFFECTIVE range. (Not necessarily max LETHAL range, of course...a hit at 200 yds would probably be deadly if inflicted in the right place.  The problem is just getting the hit!)  Just MHO.

[Mossyrock]

While I have never put mine on paper at that distance, I shoot at a 12" gong at that distance on a regular basis.  I won't try to tell you that I hit it every time (or even OFTEN), but I do hit it on a fairly routine basis, and scare it real good more often than that!     I replaced the factory rear sight with one from a Shiloh Sharps, and my front sight is a Patridge-type silver blade.  Not great, but better than factory!  My load is the Rapine 350gr Spencer bullet with SPG lube, no over-powder card wad and as much fffg Goex as I can stuff in it.

[Herbert]

i think you would class the spencer more as an asult rifle especily post civil war with cutoff intermediat cartrige henry defintly SMG

[Fox Creek Kid]

I replaced the factory rear sight with one from a Shiloh Sharps

I did the same thing and it is MUCH better. 

[Trailrider]

i think you would class the spencer more as an asult rifle especily post civil war with cutoff intermediat cartrige henry defintly SMG

You're RIGHT!  Which was why I compared the effective range to a Thompson.  But we don't use that word (a-----t rifle) where the anti's can read it!  Ya wanna get Spencers and Henry's banned if you-know-who gets in?   

[Herbert]

sory about the referance to evil toys we have the same trouble in australia we need a poli lick Sara Palin

[Bead Swinger]

Back to those Ohio Sharpshooters -
I recall that Wilder's brigade members did something similar just north of Chattangooga. I don't think the distances were 700 yds, but more like 4-500. I do recall that the author of the letter being quoted was quite surprised at the range they were getting from their rifles, and was quite impressed.  Even if it was 200-250 yds (If I have the location right - that's how wide the river is now at that point), it's still good shooting. I think the quote was from a "Wilders Brigade" book that quoted a lot of memoirs.  I might be remembering the wrong incident.  I think the incident quoted occured between Tullahoma and Chickamauga. It might have been after Chickamauga though.

I think the '50 yard' thing for a Spencer Rifle is probably a bit off. From what I see - their ammo was probably better than ours (nice long pointy bullets, nice soft copper for reduced blow-back, etc) and 45 gr. of black powder to push it, not 39 or less.  Even with those wimpy sights, I'm sure they performed (and probably still could) pretty comparably, if not better than the rifled-muskets they were facing.  Besides, most of the shooters (or at least the ones in the 1st OH SS and others who'd write home about it) probably had better eyes than most of us... being 20-something or less!

Beadswinger

[Herbert]

i got my refrance from spencer 1866 catolog it is full of leters from troops it is reprinted by S&S cost 5 dollars good historic read I defently now what you mean about eye sight i used to shoot full bore over 900 meters now i can hardly see targets past 300

[matt45]

Hello The Camp
I shot my Armi- sport last year (carbine) quite a bit from 100 to 500 yards.  My experience was that the 200 yard notch was poor, and my shooting was actually better at 500 yards than at 300.  The best group at 300 yards was about 16 inches, and I actually peppered a bale (small square) at 500.  I am on record that the action deserves better sights than the repro's or even the originals were equiped with.  So there is my 5 cents worth, and it's not worth a penny
                                                                                                                Matt45

[Herbert]

your results are simular to mine notised it shot tighter groups at 100 than it did at 50 after 200 my eys wear as much to blame as the sights if only they would make a sporting rifle with decent sights and set triger i would break down the dore to buy one   ow my spencer carbine is a 1865 original