Confederate use of a Spencer at Gettysburg *** Photo Added ***

[Henry4440]

Just read in the article, Spencer's Repeaters in the Civil War by by A.M.Beck
....The first reported Confederate use of a Spencer was by Sergeant W.O. Johnson, Co. C of the 49th Va. Infantry on July 3rd, 1863.  He used one of the repeaters in fighting around Culps Hill at the battle of Gettysburg.(12)  How an infantry sergeant managed to capture a Spencer so quickly, and with an apparently adequate supply of ammunition, is a mystery.  In the east they had been issued only to the 5th and 6th Michigan cavalry.  Up to that date, there had been no major engagements between northern cavalry and southern infantry in the Gettysburg campaign....
(12)Spencer Repeating Firearms, Roy Marcot, Norrthwood Heritage Press 1983, Pg. 25,45

Surprise surprise.

[Fox Creek Kid]

...How an infantry sergeant managed to capture a Spencer so quickly, and with an apparently adequate supply of ammunition, is a mystery...

I think I can answer that: the Yankee was dead & a Reb took his gun & ammo. 

[Arizona Trooper]

It would be me that wrote that. The mystery is that the 49th Va. Infantry hadn't been within many, many miles of the 5th or 6th Mich. Cav. before Gettysburg, or even during the battle. The 5th and 6th Mich were the only units with Spencers east of Tennessee at that time. They were stationed in DC until Custer picked them up just after Brandy Station. Their first battle was Hanover, Pa. the day before Gettysburg.

I got the reference from John McAulay's book "Civil War Breech Loading Rifles", but he doesn't give a source. (The Marcot footnote is a screw-up.) Since I sort of knew John at the time, I felt safe. Later I checked out the unit histories and began to have some doubts. Joe Bilby and I sat around the campfire one evening and discussed this at length. He decided to leave it out of his book "A Revolution in Arms".

My suspicion is that this is one of the many references in unit histories from the 1880s and 90s that doesn't pan out. Johnson probably did pick up a Spencer in some battle, but it probably was not at Gettysburg.

[ducklakedave]

A couple of years ago I acquired an unfired Spencer cartridge from a fellow who said he dug it on private property West of Gettysburg.  He gave me a map which showed the general area and it was just North of the Chambersburg Pike.  This area certainly saw a lot of Cavalry action as it was where Buford made his initial stand on the first day of Gettysburg.  As far as I know neither the 5th or 6th Michigan ever came close to this area as they were in the area of the East Cavalry battlefield and maybe as far South as Two Taverns.  This has always been a mystery to me and I am curious if anyone knows if any of Buford's units had Spencers.

[Henry4440]

  This has always been a mystery to me and I am curious if anyone knows if any of Buford's units had Spencers.

ducklakedave,
The men of Buford's division were armed with Burnside,Gallager,Merrill,Sharps and Smith single-shot breechloading carbines.
The only Spencers in the whole Army of the Potomac were the rifles by the Fifth and Sixth Michigan Cavalry.

[Bead Swinger]

Hi All
I realize that there is a lot of books stating emphatically that none of Buford's men had Spencers at Gettysburg. Unless there is some evidence to the contrary, I suspect there should be some healthy doubt to this. To my poor recollection, I thought there was documented evidence that the NJ regiments did have Spencer Rifles at some point (August?) after the battle, but the actual date of their issue is not known. 

I think the prevailing argument has been that without other proof, one should assume that Spencers were NOT issued to any of prior to Gettysburg, because if they were, there would be something written about it, that should have shown up in some unit history or private writing, and this is rather absent. I think my point is that we don't know for sure, but should assume that Spencers were not at McPherson's ridge for lack of evidence.

The point that the Texas fellow would have had a hard time getting anywhere near the 5th or 6th Michigan boys is pretty likely.

[Will Ketchum]

A couple of years ago I acquired an unfired Spencer cartridge from a fellow who said he dug it on private property West of Gettysburg.  He gave me a map which showed the general area and it was just North of the Chambersburg Pike.  This area certainly saw a lot of Cavalry action as it was where Buford made his initial stand on the first day of Gettysburg.  As far as I know neither the 5th or 6th Michigan ever came close to this area as they were in the area of the East Cavalry battlefield and maybe as far South as Two Taverns.  This has always been a mystery to me and I am curious if anyone knows if any of Buford's units had Spencers.

The problem with undocumented artifacts, well, even documented ones for that matter, is that when they were found may have a great influence on where they were found.   For the Spencer round in question.  Who's to say it wasn't found sometime after the battle near where the 5th or 6th Michigan fought and then lost later.  For instance I can see some young boys, perhaps the Summer after the battle, prowling around the grounds.  They would have found hundreds of items and as they moved around could just as well as dropped a couple of them.

Some of these mysteries can't be solved, but it is fun to speculate.

Will Ketchum

[Arizona Trooper]

As for the records of who had what, the ordnance returns are fairly accurate for federal troops, especially for Spencers, since there were no state or private sales that early in the war (unlike Sharps and Merrill, for instance). Spencers were a big deal, and every one that was issued got recorded (but unfortunately not by SN). The CO of the 5th and 6th Mich. had a lot of political pull, and had his Spencers allocated before they were delivered in December of '62. The Mich. Spencers were the first delivered (even before the Navy Rifles, which had lower serial numbers). The Ohio Sharpshooters and Rosecrans (Wilder, Minty, etc.) were next in line. The 5th and 6th Michigan Cav. was called east to the DC garrison after being allocated Spencers, but before they were delivered, otherwise all issues were to western units. 

One area of strangeness is the dates when the receipts made it through the War Department, which became the official delivery date. It was not uncommon for the actual guns to be in the field as much as a month before they were "delivered". 

As for that stray round, keep in mind that Spencers were very popular hunting arms after the war. They were by far the cheapest repeater on the market for many years. That round could have just as easily easily been dropped by a farmer chasing whitetails in 1883 as by a Union soldier chasing Rebs in 1863. I've encountered more than a few battlefield anachronisms like that. (You mean the Confederates at Ox Hill didn't have 44-40s!!!???) 

[Bead Swinger]

Speaking of early-issue Spencers, I've just been reading "Rekindling Camp Fires" by Lewis Crawford about a fellow named Ben Arnold (Connor), who was in the 2nd Btn of the 11th Ohio Cavalry, enlisted in the summer of 1863. He claims in his memoir that his unit had "Seven-Shot Spencer Rifle" (and Remmington Revolvers) in the fall of 1863 while stationed at Ft. Laramie.  Furthermore, he's very clear that his unit was not issued arms until they were at Ft. Leavenworth KS, prior to going after Quantrill.

I'd have never thought that Spencer Rifles would wind up in Ft. Leavenworth KS in August 1863.  Go Figure. I'm assuming that this is listed in somebody's master list of Spencer-armed regiments.

[Arizona Trooper]

That's very strange! The first carbine order was placed on July 13, 1863, but wasn't delivered until October 3rd. Armory correspondence reports the first carbine delivery (500) as the last week of September, 1863.

It's also very odd that a green unit in the far West would have been issued Spencers. Most were making due with cast-offs, like Merrills and Unions.

It was very common for new units to go to the field unarmed, especially in the West. They would be issued arms and equipment when they got to their first post.

I'll look up the 11th, sounds like an interesting unit. 

[Bead Swinger]

Let me know if you find anything  - It appears that this btn was raised specifically for service on the frontier - and Ben Arnold related several true-ringing stories about galvanized southerners who joined up so they wouldn't be shooting at southerners (including a planned, but avoided mutiny).  I'd love to get the reference cooberated.  It surprised me.  I have no idea if the regular 11th OH was issued Spencers, or went west with this 2nd Btn.  THis may make researching harder.

Thanks!

[Arizona Trooper]

I did a quick check last evening. It appears that the unit was actually raised as the 7th Ohio in October of '61 and consolidated with the 6th to bring it up to full strength. They were sent to St. Louis and the 4 companies of the old 7th split out as the 1st Independent Bttn Ohio Cav. They went west to Neb. Territory in April of '62. Another Bttn. was raised at Camp Dennison and Camp Chase in June-July of '63 and added to the 1st Ind. Bttn, which then became the 11th Ohio Cav.

One interesting thing is that a lot of the men came from the Hamilton, Ohio area, but they were never armed with Cosmopolitan or Union carbines, which were made in Hamilton. Jerry Coate's book has the 11th armed with Spencers, but doesn't give an issue date. They were in through '66, by which time almost every cav unit was Spencer armed.

The Indian fighting Confederates in Federal service are a story all by themselves!   

[Two Flints]

Hi,

I did a little research on the 11th Ohio Volunteers and found the following notes regarding the issue of Spencer carbines/rifles on the frontier. 

Lieut. Col. William O. Collins was appointed head of the newly created 11th Ohio Volunteer Cavalry, after March 1863.

In May 1853, Colonel "Collins contracted to buy carbines from Ben Kitteridge and Company of Cincinnati at his and the troopers' expense (at twenty-three dollars each).  Collins had complained that the single-shot Enfield rifles wer not suited for cavalrymen, especially on the frontier (they were almost useless on horseback).

Twenty-five year old Hervey Johnson of Highland County, Ohio enlisted in the 11th Ohio in July of 1863.  In late January, 1864, he wrote at Ft. Laramie: "Along with his regiment, he was issued a Spencer repeating rifle.  He explained, "metallic cartidges are used for loading it, seven cartridges are fired from it one after another with great rapidity, and it is loaded with seven more much quicker than the old piece (Enfield) are with one."  The Spencer increased the fire power of the frontier units immeasurably, and proved its worth on the frontier many times over.  Relatively few Civil War Union troops were as fortunate, so early on.

Photo from the book:  Guarding the Overland Trails: The Eleventh Ohio Cavalry in the Civil War by Robert Huhn Jones.  Photo actually shows a Spencer Rifle, and not a carbine as mentioned in the photo description below.  The book is excellent reading by the way.



Two Flints 

[Bead Swinger]

Two Flints
Can you dig up any SN's for rifles assigned to the 11th Cav?  That would be humorous.

That photo is great - and not what I'd expect: Dark Blue trousers and an apparently untrimmed Cav jacket. Clearly carrying a Remmington pistol.

Thanks!

[Two Flints]

Bead Swinger,

Good question

I haved two full pages of Spencer Rifle serial #s that were issued to members of the 5th, 6th, and 7th Independent Ohio Volunteers, as early as February 25, 1863 to August 16, 1863.  I think these Independent Company Ohio Volunteer were later combined into the 11th Ohio Volunteer Cavalry.  The vast number of serial #s I have are four digit numbers, lowest being 1026 to #9838, with just a few five digit serial #s, the highest being 10273.

Two Flints