12 ga. reload ?

[Sky Soldier]

What do you guys think of:

     82gr. GOEX ffg (3 Drams)
     1 1/8 oz. #7 1/2 shot
     enough Circle Fly nitro, lubed cushion and over shot wads/cards to give me 40 lbs. of compression
     in a Winchester "UNIVERSAL" (the ones' in the 100 round boxes) once fired hull with a Win 209 primer

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Whenever I'm the first responder, I wonder why?

This sounds like a decently strong load.  I would feel well armed using it on upland game.  As for CAS?  I would call it warthog-ish.  Not too extreme, but getting there.

My first BP loads were almost exactly this recipe.  Since then I have cut back on both powder & shot.  I found that 70 gr. FF broke as many trap birds as 80 gr. loads did.  Then I dropped shot back to 1 oz, (to save money - I'm no gamer.) and I could do as well.  Now, my CAS loads are down to about 60 gr, and occasionally I drop the shot load to 7/8oz of #8, but 1 oz is my usual load.

Coincidently, my 16 ga. loads are very similar.

For hunting, I would stick with the load you have.  For CAS competition, they are good solid loads, but the nature of the targets can be dealt with adequately with less.  Try your 80gr loads for a bit, then drop back and compare your results.  I'd drop powder first, say to about 70 gr.

As with all such opinions, they are mine alone.  Others may differ, and it is up to you to load efficiently, but effectively.

[Dalton Masterson]

I would agree with Sir Charles. I was loading 72 gr 1F and 1oz shot. Was a nice load, not too much recoil, and took down targets. I have since dropped to 60gr 1F, and went up to 1 1/8 oz shot. Works nice, and has a little more lead coverage than before.
Oh, I am using AA hulls, and red AA plastic (oh the humanity) wads. 
I also load with the hulls you are using, but the load is pretty much the same if I remember right. I just use them for bird hunting, that way if I lose em, oh well.

[hellgate]

Regardless of your components you must PATTERN THE LOAD. A piece of butcher paper on a cardboard box at 15 yards is good enough for CAS. You just want to be sure you either have a center dense load or an even pattern for the knockdowns. If your gun has chokes the loads are more forgiving. If you have cylinder bores, then some heavy loads will throw donut patterns when the blast blows the wad forward into the shot column.  A lighter powder charge usually reduces that effect. Regardless of the load some kind of shot cup will help prevent the donut patterns. I shoot your load but I use a thick plastic steel shot cup that gives nice tight modified pattern loads from my cylinder bored shotguns. For swingers and stationary targets I use a weenie load of 55grs powder ( Pyro RS or P, APP, FFFg or FFg) with a white Winchester AA wad in a Remington green (STS or Club) case holding 7/8oz shot. That way I don't waste powder & shot on a non faller.

I am unfamilliar with your hull. I am a big believer in the plastic over powder cup shaped wads. In both tapered and thin straight walled cases they give better gas sealing. with card wads in a thin walled case you may get blowby because the wads can't compress laterally very much and in a tapered hull the car & filler gets squeezed down to a smaller diameter when seated and again, you can get gas blowby and loss of power. The plastic over powder sealers will swell out to create a better seal. I ofter cut off the base of a one piece plastic wad and discard the in between parts in order to use the shot cup and OP wad. I then use cards & filler wads in between if there is room.

[Mako]

It is a good hunting  load...  3 Drams with 1 1/8 oz. of shot is a 1200 to 1250fps load (a medium hunting load)

If you are just knocking down shotgun targets it is more than enough.  A lot of people shoot 63 gr. (4.3 cc) of ffg under 1 oz. of shot and it's works fine for cowboy distances and targets.  My daughter shoots 3/4 oz. loads at subsonic velocities and knocks everything down she hits.  Her patterns are on target and in a tight mass about 3 to 4 inches in diameter.

12 ga. 1 oz hunting loads normally are 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 Dram equivalent loads.  The above mentioned 1 oz. load is less than 2 1/3 Drams.  I want to point out a lower velocity load tends to clump and not spread as quickly or as much.  This is actually beneficial in Cowboy Action Shooting because we want mass on target to rock or knock those plates down. Any shot in a nice round pattern that isn't on target is a "miss."  If you have to load 1 1/8 oz. at 1200 fps to get 70 - 75% of your pattern to transfer the required moment then you aren't doing any better than someone getting 90 - 99% on at 1000 -1100 fps. Momentum is what knocks down steel and it is simply "mass X velocity," not kinetic energy which gives an edge to velocity. You need to pattern your shotgun at CAS shotgun ranges to see how much shot you are getting on target determine what works for you.

I hunt with the load you described in a modern shotgun with smokeless powder, I compete with a load better suited to the distances and targets.  No one ever accuses me of shooting light loads.  A black powder load as I described roars twice as loud and smokes up the area as much as anyone could wish.  I have twice had to borrow shells at matches because I got to a stage and forgot to load my shotshell loops, both times I got comments like, "wow you could sure tell when you shot those "lighter" smokeless loads in your string."  The reality in one case was that the smokeless loads were 1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dram equivalent promotional shells that were actually a lot higher in velocity and shot weight.

That's my two cents, there is no correct answer.  Your load will work fine, mine is just a little more efficient.

Regards,
Mako

[Adirondack Jack]

Gut reaction is, when ya pattern it, you'll find it an "open" pattern, due to lots of velocity ya probably don't need.  Next yer gonna find that much powder and shot leaves ya with 1/2" or so cushion, which ain't a lot with that kinda load, AND the cheap hulls may play he77 to extract very quickly.  If I was looking for throw weight, I'd look to 65-70 grains powder and if ya felt froggy, 1 1/4 oz. lead.  A "coin roll" paper cup made of two turns of printer paper wrapped around a dowel, folded over like a roll of dimes on one end then cut to length to just contain the shot will increase pattern density a TON, as much as double the hits at 20 yards or so on a paper plate.

[Fingers McGee]

My bp load used to be 70gr, fiber wad, 1 1/8 oz 7 1/2 shot.  A fellow darksider introduced me to a lighter load consisting of 50 gr ffg, Gray Win AA wad, 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot.  So far, that load has only failed to take one knockdown out (at HOW stage 12 almost no one could knock down that one on the first try), and cleanly breaks flying birds.  In the long run, it's a good ecconomical load.

[Adirondack Jack]

As a general rule, ya don't NEED lots of velocity for our game, even for big, heavy KDs.  What ya need is "mass on target". Attempts to do the job with more powder usually end up with blown patterns resulting in light hits, especially when we're talking BP and subs.  More lead, or a SHOT CUP, (two turns of paper with a folded base ala a coin roll makes a good one) will put more of the lead on the plate.

Even adding lead can be overkill. I used to load as much as 1 1/4 ounces of shot with 60 grains (volume) of 777 FFG, but recently have been shooting smokeless with AA low recoil (featherlight) shells that only send about 9/10s ounce of shot at fairly modest velocity.  Since they pattern well in my gun, I got positive KD performance and faster pairs with the lower recoil.

I'm thinkin that my next batch of 777 shotshells will be an attempt to duplicate them.  the SHOT CUP will be crucial, as well as REDUCING the powder enough so the velocity stays around 1200 fps or so, so the pattern stays dense. Shot in the berm does nothin for ya.

[hellgate]

A tight pattern will knock down more than a wide , more powerful pattern. If your gun has tight chokes the lighter loads work great. With cylinder bores far away targets may stand up to them.  For my cylinder bored guns I use steel shot cups that deliver a modified choke pattern onto the target.  Most of my shells are light 55gr BP AA Wad 7/8oz shot in a GREEN Remington hull. For big KDs I use the 80gr 1 1/8oz steel shot cup loads. 3/4 of my shooting is with the light loads but sometimes you are allowed to make up rifle misses of falling plates with the shotgun and the light open patterned loads won't cut it so I go for the boomers (in RED AA hulls).

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I put up my competition loads in gold colored R-P NITRO 27 cases, same as RTS but looks better than brass!

[Sky Soldier]

Thank you all for replying.
I tried my load and a couple of yours and my gun (Rossi 12ga. Coach Gun) patterns best with 70 gr. ffg and 1 oz. of shot.
Thanks again for the help.