Puma '92 .454 Casull for CAS?

Sawed-Off · August 23, 2008, 08:19:33 AM

I'm a new pard, and have been jumping through the hoops getting my firearms license in order for the last few months. Finally everything is ready to go and I'm about to plunk down some money on my levergun. I've been keen on getting the Puma in .454 Casull as I could use it for occasional hog hunts, and use it for CAS with .45LC. In having a conversation with a club mate, he suggested that this gun might not be fully competition legal. His worry is that .454 Casull mightn't be a CAS legal cartridge, and that's what will be stamped on the barrel. On taking a closer look, the Puma site doesn't seem to acknowledge that this rifle can cycle and fire .45LC, even though reviews and owner anecdotes say it works fine. So without the manufacturer blessing .45LC, I could be out of luck. However, my pard isn't sure, and after looking around further, I now have doubts of my own. The SASS handbook says rifles need to be a caliber commonly found in revolvers, which the .454 Casull seems to predominantly be.

Could more experienced pards please give me some guidance on this?

Russ T Chambers · August 23, 2008, 09:05:04 AM

I don't know what some clubs may say, but I know that there are rifles out there that have barrels makes .357 and .44 mag. I shit a Rossi Puma marked .44 mag. Used .44 mag. Brass, but loaded my own to keep it under the SASS velocity limits. I was never questioned or had any problems. If your Puma will cycle with .45 Colt then I wouldn't have a problem with you shooting at our club!

Trailrider · August 23, 2008, 10:40:47 AM

Howdy, Pards,

The main problem with the .454 Casull ROUND is that it is intended for high-pressure loads and ballistics that aren't legal for SASS, nor practical. The .454 Casull cartridge is simply an elongated .45 Long Colt, so that it won't chamber in regular .45 LC guns that won't take the pressures!

Could you reduce the loads in the .454 brass to the level of the .45 LC? The answer is "Yes, but!" The problem is that the .454 Casull brass is much thicker than .45 LC brass. At the lower pressures, the .454 brass won't expand enough to seal the chamber, resulting in blowby back past the brass. (A lot of shooters who shoot .45 LC with reduced loads experience the same thing, especially with black powder.)

What I would recommend is making up some dummy rounds (no powder, no primer, just the seated bullet) using .45 LC brass and see if they will successfully feed through the .454 Casull-chambered Rossi. If so, then shoot .45 LC loads that are under the 1400 ft/sec SASS-max. If not, then you would do better with a Rossi chambered for .45 LC only.

Sawed-Off · August 23, 2008, 09:53:43 PM

Thanks Gentlemen.

Assuming I had ammo that met CAS velocity specs, if I was to turn up at EOT with this rifle, I'd be allowed to use it?

Russ T Chambers · August 23, 2008, 10:32:42 PM

Quote from: Sawed-Off on August 23, 2008, 09:53:43 PM
Thanks Gentlemen.

Assuming I had ammo that met CAS velocity specs, if I was to turn up at EOT with this rifle, I'd be allowed to use it?

Several years ago I would have said yes, but now some people have gotten very strange with rules and such. I wouldn't want to tell you to spend your money only to be told you can't shoot your rifle. And this coming from someone that had 15 consecutive years at EOT and was our Territorial Governor for most of that time .

Sawed-Off · August 23, 2008, 10:49:41 PM

Russ T, thanks. It looks like there is some potential for confusion, so I think I might just go with the straight .45 LC model and save everyone the headaches. I've also been considering a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun for my hunting needs. I was just trying to save some space in my safe, and keep my startup costs down for guns and reloading.

Sawed-Off · August 26, 2008, 01:34:46 AM

OK, I don't give up easy.

Here's an update for pards that don't read SASS Wire, and to provide an answer for any curious pards that search for this later (I noticed this thread has been indexed on Google).

I saw a pard over there was intending to do the same thing with this rifle - hunt hogs and shoot CAS. I asked my question there and Nate Kiowa Jones (The Rossi Guy) says I'll be fine. I'm guessin' that if anyone knows, it'd be him. .454Casull/.45Colt, .357Mag/.38Special, .44Mag/.44Special - it's all good as long as the ammo meets CAS velocity rules. That pretty much means handloading is needed.

Thanks again for the help, pards. I've ordered this rifle and a reloading press, so I'm on my way.

Tom Bullweed · September 12, 2008, 10:10:24 PM

I am a big fan of 92's. I have a factory tuned Rossi in .357 and an original in .32 WCF. They were good enough for the Duke; they are certainly good enough for me. Any problem that I have experienced has been caused by me short-stroking or not being consistent on cartridge length.

I would suggest one of the 92's in .45 Colt. The size of the receiver and the weight seem to be closer to the original. The only problem with the .45 is that they do not expand in the chamber requiring me to tumble my empty cartridges before reloading.

CorBon loads hot .45 Colts that will produce 1400-1500 fps in 300 grain bullets in the 20" barrel. That should be enough to punch clean through any hog that I have seen.