Got the black, got the boolits, got the 45/70 & a 44/40, now, what wads, etc?

[fourfingersofdeath]

I was thinking of cutting some overpowder wads from manilla folder cardboard and a lube wad from an old hat my son left here many moons ago. Am I on the right track?

[Ranch 13]

 If you're using a good lube, then just the manila folder wad should work ok. I've used tablet backs, milk carton and numerous other things, but in the end just buying the .030 fiber wads works just fine, and at 1000 per bag will last quite awhile.
The felt wad won't be needed unless you're trying to down load with the bp, and need to fill some airspace.

[Dick Dastardly]

The Mav Dutchman 44-40 bullets won't require any wads, cookies or other adjuncts.  Simply lube/size them or pan lube them, load the ammo and shoot.  This is the bullet I shoot myself out of 44 Magnum Browning 92s.  They run like a pink bunny and accuracy never falls off.

With the 45-70, Ranch 13 has given you good advice.  Circle Fly has .460 1/16" fiber wads that work great and don't cost an arm and a leg.  I drop the Holy Black into the case thru a drop tube and place a Circle Fly fiber wad on top.  Then, I compress the works with a compression die.  I thumb seat the lube/sized Mk-III bullets and, depending on the mission, lightly crimp or leave 'em loose.

Yes JB, I'll have targets to show very soon.  I've gotten some fantastic results.

DD-DLoS

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

For 44-40, 45 Schofield, and 45 Colt I use Big Lube bullets. No wads are neccessary. I even tried some accuracy tests with dead soft pure lead 44-40 bullets in my '73 with and without a card wad between the powder and the bullet, and it made no difference. So I don't bother.

For 45-70 in my Sharps I use a 1/32" thick card wad between powder and the base of the bullet to protect the base of the bullet. I buy them from Circle Fly. I am not using Big Lube bullets in 45-70.

[fourfingersofdeath]

Thanks for all of the help. If I was going to load a lot of 44/40 would a card wad protect the charge from the lube whilst in storage? I tend to shoot em off pretty quick nowadays, but things change from time to time. I remember seeing Lobo from south Australia shooting Frontier cartridge class with 45s revolvers and 44/40 rifle full of black, he is gooddddddddddddd and got through to the final shootoff. It was a choice between him and a nce guy, but a gamer who was shooting pop gun loads out of  38 cal guns. Lobo almost made it, but was running low on ammo and dragged out some stuff that had been loaded for awhile. He had two misfires (His ladylove's alias is MissFire) and missed the champeensheeep! Dayuum!

I ain't anywhere good enough to be worrying about a championship, but I would like to know I could put loads down that are going to last a year or so without deteriorating.

[Ranch 13]

 The main purpose of the wad under the bullets is to protect the base from getting deformed and help seal the bore and slow down the amount of gas cutting to the sides of the bullets. Whether or not the wads help much in revolver loads is debatable I suppose, but I'm on the "won't hurt nuthin" side.
If the lube you're using is runny enough to contaminate the powder, a wad probably won't help as it'll just soak the lube also.LDPE wads might stop any lube contamination.
Biggest problem you might encounter with having loaded rounds around for extended time is the lube stiffening and drying out, or possibly even mildly gluing the bullet to the case. I've had rounds loaded for several years that still worked alright when I got around to firing them.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy 4 Fingers -

As Ranch 13 mentioned, if the lube gets hot enough to get runny INSIDE a loaded round (VERY doubtful, IMHO) a card or felt wad probably wont do much besides serve as a sponge. On the other hand, if you use a poly wad or, like me, use an OJ carton and punch my own, the waterproof coating (USED to be wax/parrafein - NOW is thin plastic) of the punched wad ought to stop any lube migration problems.

My pard Delmonico had some loads of his get left in his pick'emup truck during July for a while.  He's from Nebraska, so you KNOW the inside of the truck got a tad warm  and he fired 'em.  I THINK he said they were loaded with BigLube (tm) projectiles, but I'm not sure.  What I'm pretty sure of is that he reported "no problems."

Go to Harbor Freight and buy a $5 st of gasket punches.  (Sorry;  they're from China, but what ain't these days?    )  The 7/16" punch does well for 45 wads (and 'tho a bit large, prob'ly 44, too) and the 5/16" will work for 36 cal C&B and 38 cal loadings)

I've used these for 45 Colt, 45-70, 36 C&B and 38 S&W.  I've also stuck them into 38 Spl cases "just to try" but I don't load for those itty-bitty calibers, so I really can't say for sure.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Since I use the Big Lube bullets in my 44-40, 45 Schofield, and 45 Colt rounds, most of the lube stays in the lube groove, where it belongs. A very thin skim of lube is usually left on the base of the bullet, but I don't worry about it with CAS ammo. I just compress the powder directly with the bullet. As I mentioned earlier, at CAS ranges I did not see a significant increase in accuracy when separating the powder from the bullet base with a card, so I leave out the extra step. Incidentally, my 44-40 Mav-Dutchman bullets are cast from pure, dead soft lead, so if anything is going to deform from compressing the powder, they will. I have pulled enough of them over time to see that there is no visible deformation of the soft bullet base, and like I say, they are accurate enough for CAS. I store my ammo in the basement, bullet down in plastic boxes. Sometimes I stockpile my ammo so that it sits in the basement for a year or more. Migration of the lube into the powder has never been a problem for me. At a match on a hot summer day, I keep my ammo out of direct sunlight in the ammo box on my cart. Never a problem with lube running, even on a 95 degree day. If you are going to store ammo for a while, I recommend storing it bullet down in a cool place.

When I used to pan lube bullets, and added lube cookies I did separate the lube cookie from the powder by a card wad. And incidentally I discovered I needed to separate the lube cookie from the base of the bullet too, or the soft cookie would glue itself to the base of the bullet, causing it to wobble in flight like an arrow with lopsided feathers, ruining accuracy. It took me a while to figure out this phenomenon, I couldn't figure out why my rifle groups were opening up to 8" or so at 25 yards, until I found some bullets buried in the berm with lube cookies still glued to their bases. Adding the card between the lube cookie and the bullet base instantly made the problem go away and tightened up my groups again. But what a pain! Charge the case with powder, then seat a card wad, then a lube cookie, then another card wad, and finallysquish the whole mess with a bullet. Way too much work. That's why I jumped on the Big Lube bandwagon when it passed by and haven't looked back since. Dump in the powder, then seat a bullet. No muss, no fuss, no extra work.





Well, not really. Now I have to cast all my bullets, then find time to lube/size them. The bottom line is, you pays your money, you takes your choice. You can buy Big Lube bullets pre lubed and sized, or you can do it your self, or you can use conventional bullets and add all the cookies and wads. You pays your money, you takes your choice on how you want to do it.

[fourfingersofdeath]

Thse Big Lube boolits sound like they are the way to go.

[Surly Bob]

Big Lube boolits are pretty fine.
I use a lube sizer on mine.
I'm pretty messy so they come out sloppy with lube on bottom too.
But my home made lube is pretty greasy so I spec that is the reason.
My fingers get slick and I end up getting lube all over the outside of the bullet too.
But I do think the rounds go into the rifle a lot smoother that way.
Don't make no nevermind in the pistols...Just lots more lube than they need.
And I do get a lot of lube on the end of the barrells.

I've loaded reglar bullets into BP loads. 
They work fine until you have a real dry hot day.  Then watch out, 'cause your pistols and rifle will gum up.
For the dry days, or any day really, the big lube bullets won't fail you. 
Even on a dry day, the grime will blow away and the guns still function after a few stages.
Time for casting and lubing is a problem for me right now but big lube is the way to go.

[fourfingersofdeath]

Thanks fellas, surly, I have ordered a big lube mould for both. Mick.