Experiments with .45 Colt, a Henry, and various BP loads..

[Deadguy]

Last weekend I went to my local range to see what kind of .45 Colt loads I really wanted to use in my Henry for CAS matches and general use.  All powder in listed loads is homemade willow-based BP, which is slightly fluffier and more compressible than Goex, but also a bit more powerful, like Swiss.  Load 1 was 40 grains BP per volume, compressed, pushing a cardboard over powder wad and a lubricated wool felt wad, with a 255 grain Lee bullet on top.  It shot accurately, went all the way through, and knocked over, an old PC that was on the range, and had little to no blowback into the action.  It carried enough lube to not lose accuracy with repeated firings. Thumbs up.  Load 2 was a 150 grain EPP-UG, pan lubed, being pushed by 60 grains per volume (compressed heavily!).  This load was very accurate, carried more than enough lube, and made a nice rifle-like CRACK, also penetrating the PC, but not knocking it over.  Unfortunately, it had massive blowback into the action and all over my face.  Not a good load for the Henry!  Load 3 was the same as Load 2, except I use a 200 grain Lee REAL that had been sized down to .452.  Same results as the EPP-UG.  I also tried this load in my Ruger Blackhawk, and it kicked like a .44 magnum!  I would not want to be downrange of it.  So, it looks like Load 1 will be my loading of choice.  Is that similar to what any of you guys use?

[Ransom Gaer]

My main CAS load for both my '66 and my Henry is a .45 Schofield case with about 28 grains of Goex BP behind a 200 grain RNFP from Desperado Cowboy bullets with a grease cookie.  I have used both 2F and Cowboy with similar results.  It is a good load for CAS, but there is some blowback with it.  I developed this load to try to emmulate the .44 Henry Rimfire ballistically.

For long range I have tried a 250 grain RNFP ahead of 35 grains of Goex BP in a .45 Colt case.  No lube cookie.  Great load for long range and less blowback.  I think I may have to try something even closer to what you're doing.  I still have room in the case.

Everything sized .452.

Ransom Gaer

[Col. Cornelius Gilliam]

Howdy,

I currently shoot 38-40's due to the blowback I encountered with the 45 LC causing the 73 lifter to get gummy and sticky after a magazine or two.  The 38-40 case is thinner and bottle necked.  No blowback at all with blackpowder (or smokeless for that matter).

When I was shooting the 45's, I used enough black powder (tried several different brands) to get approx. 1/16" compression with a 250gr RNFP bullet.  I use no wads in blackpowder pistol loads.  I do use wads in long range blackpowder rifle loads.

I load all blackpowder cartridges this way, volume to get the desired compression.  I don't care how much powder weight that takes.  It's volume that counts.  Don't get hung up on the old "40gr" number listed as the original loading.  It was different powder than we have today, in a case with a different internal capacity (volume).

[Fox Creek Kid]

It was different powder than we have today...

Huh? 

[Deadguy]

Yes, powder back themn was a little different that what we have today.  From most accounts that I have read, it was better.  Goex really isn't all that good.  From what I gather, the powder used "back in the day" was more like Swiss powder as far as quality and energy goes, making it more powerful per volume/weight that what we have now.  According to several sources, even homemade powder can have twice the energy of Goex, as long as you use willow charcoal.  I use the 40 grains per volume because that's what was originally used, when fully compressed there is exactly enough room in the case for a over powder card, a lubed wad, and a 255 grain bullet (which works out perfectly and is very convenient), it eliminates blowback for a better shooting experience, and, finally, and most importantly, I hate wimpy loads.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

When Black Powder was the standard, nobody used a made up unit of measurement like grains per volume. They simply weighed it. Forty grains of powder meant exactly that, 40 grains by weight. If the powder was portioned out by a volumetric method, the volume achieved was still based on the actual weight of the powder.

I agree with Cornelius. I don't rely on actual weight when loading either 44-40 or 45 Colt. I put in 2.2CCs of powder. With 2.2CC of powder I achieve about 1/16"-1/8" of compression with the bullets I use in those calibers. The actual weight will vary, depending on the powder and the granulation. With Goex FFg, it is about 34.5 grains. With Elephant FFg it was about 37 grains. With Schuetzen FFg it is about 33 grains. Although I use a card wad with my 45-70 Sharps loads I do not use a card wad in my standard CAS ammo. My accuracy tests showed it was not needed. I used to pan lube and add cookies and wads and all sorts of other stuff. Now I just use a Mav-Dutchman 200 grain Big Lube 44 Cal bullet for 44-40 and a PRS 250 grain Big Lube 45 cal bullet for 45 Colt. Sometimes I use the J/P-45 200 bullet in Schofield cases. These combinations work for me. I can shoot all day long without my guns binding up or loss of accuracy due to fouling build up. My 44-40 cases eject from my rifles as clean as most smokeless ammo with almost no fouling getting past into the action. I don't own a rifle chambered for 45 Colt.

[Fox Creek Kid]

From what I gather, the powder used "back in the day" was more like Swiss powder as far as quality and energy goes, making it more powerful per volume/weight that what we have now.

That is correct to a point. Not all BP then was made as well as the English Curtiss' & Harvey BP, which was considered the best. The Swiss 1 1/2 Fg is exactly like the Curtiss' & Harvey according to Steve Garbe at SPG. The Dupont BP in the 19th century was good powder but it was not great.  Then as now, they were in business to make money. Almost all the BP bought & used in the Civil War was "musket grade" which is pretty much the same as GOEX or the old Elephant.

[Galloway]

I cant get sixty grains in a blank! How in the heck?

[Deadguy]

Sixty grains gets in because: The homemade powder is fluffier and can be compressed further than regular Goex.  A full to the top case is 40 grains by volume, according to my Traditions powder measure, I then compress it down to half a case, then there is just enough room left to dump in 20 more grains by volume.  That makes 60 grains by volume total.

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Deadguy,

If you haven't already done it, I'd be curious to learn how your home made powder works in a load using Cowboy 45 Special brass and the EPP-UG bullets.  I'm talkin' a compressed load here.  I'm getting around 950 to 960 fps out of my 7.5" ROAs with Kirst Konverter cylinders using cheap FFFg bp. (LIDU).  My charge is 1.3cc by volume.  I haven't tried it over Swiss because I don't intend to burn that expensive powder in SASS loads.

Thanks for your work.

DD-DLoS

[Cyrille]

I've a question; How do you get the diffrent grainulations of powder when making "homemade powder"? When I first got into BP loads and shooting back in the 70's I experamented with making powder useing sulfur, saltpeter and regular charcoal as in barb-b-que type. It burned pretty good and shot decent but it was a very fine powder probably as fine or finer than 3F I didn't use much probably about 2/3s of the recomended load, if memory serves, and didn't blow up a rifle or pistol rated "for black powder only."

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Cyrille,

When you made your homemade bp, did you wet it with water and make it into a cake?  Then, did you dry the cake and mill it to break it up into granules.  After that, did you run it through a series of screens to grade it?  There are pass/hold screens that are very specific for grading bp granules.  You might ask John Boy or Dutch Bill about some of these.

The quality of the actual charcoal used in making black powder has a large effect on the quality of the finished powder.  Buckthorn Alder seems to be prefered.  Your grill charcoal probably isn't up to spec.

I make charcoal a couple of times of year for my own use.  Sometimes I'm making apple wood, sometimes hickory and lately we've found buckthorn on our property.  It's a weed tree/bush and we need to get rid of it anyway, so I'm going to make up a batch of charcoal from it.  It will be interesting to learn if my buckthorn is near the quality of the European kind.  FWIW, I use my outdoor wood furnace to make charcoal.  It makes about 40 gallons at a time.  Each batch takes about Two weeks.

DD-DLoS

[Cyrille]

I did make it into a "cake" but with rubbing alcohol not water. I let it dry for two or three days then ground it with a moder & pestel, it came out very fine I believe it is called "serpentine" powder. It was a long time ago so I'm really not up on the exact amount of liquid used. As stated it burned good. Real fast, It was loaded in muzzleloading rifle sand C&B revolvers and made a decent amount of smoke. Accurecy was fair out to 35- 40 yds or so. I don't remember exactly as to group size but I would say 2" to 4" at that distance if memory serves. And then it may be that it was me rather than the load that shot so miserible.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks Cyrille,

If I have it right, they use a ball mill to tumble the broken cake in.  I'd use stainless steel balls in a rotary tumbler.  Then, they screen the stuff to separate out the different grain sizes.  The fines might be used as priming pan powder.

I don't make the stuff, but I'm going to.  I'll study like heck and then have at it.  If you see a dark mushroom cloud just east of Madison, WI.  It may well have been my "powder plant" going up.  Anyway, it's my kind of 'off the grid' thinking.

DD-DLoS

[Deadguy]

The granulations are determined by the screens you rub it through after you have wet it down into a Play-Doh type substance.  Grill charcoal will not work very well, it has been burned too much.  Willow gets you the most powerful charcoal, alder gets you the cleanest burning.  Pine/spruce works, but it is a little bit on the weak side, so you have to use more powder than you normally would to get similar results, not recommended for cap and ball revolvers because the revolvers don't hold enough to get a decently powerful charge of it.  Works good in shotguns if loaded to a high volume, say 8.0 ccs, and compressed.  I'll have to try the EPP-UGs in Cowboy 45 Special, though I don't have any of that brass yet, and the only gun that I have that could use it is my Ruger Blackhawk.   The EPP-UGs really did scream with the compressed 60 grain load, just too bad the bullets were too light to build pressure quickly enough to seal the case in a .45 colt Henry.