Lever or pump?

1stSgt Fritz King · June 02, 2006, 05:03:18 PM

Hello the fire!

Folks, I'd like some advice. I've been playing the game for awhile now, and have used several different guns. My carbine has always been a Winchester '94 in .38/.357. My favorite shotgun is a Winchester '97 12 gauge. I got to handling one of those new '87 Winchester clones, which got me thinking...(a bad sign, I know!).

A lever shotgun with a lever carbine might be a good team. Same movement, same action. But then there's the new Taurus pump gun...same movement and action as my '97.

I know there's a vast amount of experience and knowldge out there. What would be the best choice...pump or lever?
R/S
Fritz

Doc Shapiro · June 02, 2006, 06:45:03 PM

Best choice? I guess that depends on your focus.

Get whatever you want and enjoy it!

Paper Chaser · June 02, 2006, 08:50:46 PM

Makes sense: lever rifle and lever shotgun. HOWEVER, you'll find the shotgun will require you to REALLY lever forward! no short stroke here. A pard of mine went back to his '97; just couldn't get used to the hard levering required. But it will be a personal choice whatever you decided.

1stSgt Fritz King · June 02, 2006, 09:59:36 PM

I haven't short stroked my Winchester, so that's not an issue. I'd really like a '66 clone, but it's a bit out of my price range just yet. I was just wondering what the concensus out there. As a cop, I tend to lean towards the pump. But one movement would make more sense...
R/S
Fritz

Camille Eonich · June 04, 2006, 08:45:11 AM

The lightening rifles that I have seen so far tend to spend more time jammed up than working. Very prone to trouble.

People seem to be having to work really, really hard to get any kind of speed out of the '87 shotgun.

'97 or sxs shotgun, '66 or '73 rifles are the winning combos.

1stSgt Fritz King · June 04, 2006, 09:07:45 PM

Thanks Miss Camille...what's your thought on th '66?
R/S
Fritz

E.R.Beaumont · June 05, 2006, 01:33:09 AM

Howdy Pards and Pardettes.

Fritz, Pard the pump rifles are experiencing some developmental problems. They do tend to be ammo sensetive and I am sure will work better with the bottle necked cartridges such as the .44 wcf and the .38 wcf. I have a T'bolt in .45 Colt as that is all that is available now. I haven't had the same level of problems that some have had, but then I only shoot one match a month.

I would beg to differ with Miz Caamille, but if I load up my '87 with 5 rounds and she loads her '97 with 5 rounds I think that I can get mine off first. Now I may be wrong on that, but if she does beat me it will take a timer to prove it. It will take practice to be able to conistantly run the two shot feed, but after that you don't have to fear the trombone. The key here, as with any other endevor is to practice till you are competent with the technology.

I have seen a number of posts by folks who don't own one of the arms being discussed, and have minimal hands on experience with the noted arm, who are willing to trash them. I am not saying that these are right for you, only you can tell that. However try them both, you may fall in love, or not. The '87 is the only alternative to the double in the BP catagories.

That is all I think I know.
Regards, Beaumont

Marshal Will Wingam · June 05, 2006, 02:08:18 AM

I just got back from the Western States Championship in Fernley, NV. There were three or four people using lightning rifles in our posse. Only one had a minor glitch and that was evidently a simple fix. The others all performed flawlessly the whole time. Anything you get may need a little work, be it an action job or some minor tweaking. I'd say just go for the one that appeals to you and learn how to make it sing. I'm giving serious consideration to one of the lightnings as a second gun to my '73.

Camille Eonich · June 05, 2006, 09:57:03 AM

ER you may have misread my post. I did say that people seem to be having to work really, really hard to get any kind of speed out of the '87 shotguns.

I'm not sure about NCOWS but in SASS you can only load two at a time in the shotgun so "loading up 5" and seeing who can dispel them the quickest is meaningless. On that note I don't practice much at all, once in a blue moon and Itook speed shotgun at Round up with a 7.53 time. That was six shots and a bird single loading from the left side. There are people who practice MUCH MUCH more than do who can outshoot me every which way from Sunday.

Wymore Wrangler · June 05, 2006, 09:13:11 PM

One of the best shooters in the Nebraska and Iowa circuit is Wild Ben Raymond, he shoots an original Lighting in 32-20 and an original 87, It sounds like he is shooting a machine gun when he shoots his Lighting!!!! He practices constantly with both, and has done well for himself at EOT and other larger SASS matches. Bottom line is, if you want to use then to their full potential, you have to practice with them!

h c ramrod · June 06, 2006, 08:33:32 PM

Well i shoot the 66 mostly and im pretty quic with it and when i bought a 87 lever shotgun i found i worked it as fast as my rifle , faster that i can do with my 97 pump.
it just feels like im levering the rifle and it gose fast. I can load the two shot load as fast as any can with a sxs.
but then if you have a chance to try some lowner's that would be the way to go and try before buying.

solong , the High Country Ramrod

1stSgt Fritz King · June 08, 2006, 07:21:08 PM

Pards,
I got to handle one of th '87's at a local pawn shop. The price isn't bad, and I see what y'all meant about the long lever throw. I think I could get used to it, but I will probably ask Sgt Drydock to borrw his at the next shoot. It would be a nice combined birthday/father's day gift, but I don't think the wife will buy it (pun intended).
Any more comments?
R/S
Fritz

h c ramrod · June 12, 2006, 04:38:51 PM

Howdy Pards , This how i cured the long lever throw on the 87.
My body is 5ft 9 inch and i cut the stock down to 12.5 inch now i can throw the lever further foward from the sholder with ease , and its very fast ....................Ram

1stSgt Fritz King · June 24, 2006, 07:12:49 PM

Well pards, I went and done it!

I traded a safe queen of mine for one of those '87's. I just had to have one. So for the next shoot, I'll have to try it!

Problem is, now I need a Lightning Rifle to do a fair and unbiased comparison!

Ah...decisions, decisions...
Thanks,
Fritz

Marshal Will Wingam · June 24, 2006, 08:15:13 PM

Quote from: 1stSgt Fritz King on June 24, 2006, 07:12:49 PM
Well pards, I went and done it!

I traded a safe queen of mine for one of those '87's. I just had to have one. So for the next shoot, I'll have to try it!

Problem is, now I need a Lightning Rifle to do a fair and unbiased comparison!

Ah...decisions, decisions...

That's exactly what I did. My deal just included the lightning rifle, as well. So now I can choose just about any combination when I feel like it. The lightning needs some head space adjustment and I have to go in and lighten up the action on the '87 but no big deal. It was a fair trade and I'm stoked to have 'em.

Engineer Bill · November 29, 2008, 03:21:58 PM

Danger! Danger!

Avoid the Taurus pump guns at all costs, I've had 2 of them ( even the factory agreed with me that the first one I got was junk and send a replacement after several months of calls ) and they are just not up to the rigors of CAS. Other manufacturers clones of the original Colt lightening - Might - just might fill the bill. Find a Guru, or mentor who has one that actually works and really check the gun out because once you buy it is YOURS.

Engineer Bill