tombstone, again

[Four-Eyed Buck]

this is an offshoot of the "Justifiable" thread. In it, I mentioned an article I read about Doc's shotgun. Well, i found it today. turns out it was written by Lee Silva. It was part of the reasearch for his three volume Wyatt set. Seems he found that the gun was in Quartzite, Ariz. until the middle '70's. an old movie actor had a museum there in the teens and twenty's. He acquired the gun from a resident there, who was given the gun by Wyatt a year after his brother Virgil died. When the actor got too old or passed the museum was closed and the artifacts were under the protection of a Justice of the Peace there. They were stored in a building. In '66, Silva was an acquaintance of the actor's son. they went to Quartzite to view the gun, but couldn't find it among the items left. They asked the JOP where it was, said he didn't know as there were break-ins and "borrowings" and it may be missing because of that. The JOP died in 1977, after a citizen said that he had seen it in the JOP's bedrooom a year before he died. when the family was asked about it, they said it wasn't in inventory of the JOP's estate. End of trail for now! Silva went on to describe it as an H&R hammerless, imported from England in about 1880, made by Anson&Deeley.they had been making hammerless guns since 1875. The actor's son had fired it on numerous occasions, but said it doubled on you when fired. It was a 12ga, cut short by a foot( the author's words). Silva reasoned that would explain several things, why no one saw Doc cock it, and why it seemed that he threw it down after firing. If both barrels went off together, one, it would seem like he only fired one barrel and threw it down. Two, both barrels going off might have been too much for tubercular weakened Doc to hang onto, thus wrenching itself from his grasp. Hence the appearance of throwing it down after firing. somebody in the Arizona area, at least after 1977, may own a priceless piece of history. Unless of course they stole it from the befuddled old JOP and pawned it! It may be floating around out there somewheres! Silva found that Wyatt lived in the Quartzsite area in about 1900 for awhile, even running for a law position and losing by a few votes! reportedly, he was prospecting around there. One thing he mentioned though, was the fact that Earp would sell a gun there in calif. when somebody would come to his door asking about his guns. after the person was gone, he'd go to a desk, get another out and put it in the holster he had out! Bat Masterson was famous for doing this as well. So, who knows, the O.K> Corral shotgun may be out there, or is it? I gotta get those three books of his! He also had an article on The Buntline's a year or so earlier................Buck

[St. George]

A similar story was written about back in the early '60's in the either old "True West" magazine or in "Argosy" - though I can't remember which.

The writer would stop along his travels at the little stores still open in small, dying towns.
He'd generally buy something and ask if anyone had any "old guns" to sell.
This netted a number of new Winchesters and the like from old Hardware stores, as you may imagine.

One day - after the couple of shotguns and a rifle were purchased - the owner remembered that he had an "old pistol" stuck somewhere.

He rustled around and came up with a nickelled Colt .45 4 3/4" Single Action Army - with hard rubber grips.

The guy bought this piece as well and went away happy.

After he'd cleaned it - he wrote to Colt about it - asking if they had any information.
This was done back before they'd charge an arm and a leg for a service that should have long past been entered into an automated system - so time went past.

Turns out that it was one that William Barclay (Bat) Masterson had purchased...

Apparently, Bat would buy one and someone else would remark on it - so he'd sell it off and buy another.
In that light - there are several "Bat Masterson-attributable" guns out there - waiting...

Scouts Out!

[Four-Eyed Buck]

I agree, St. George. Like I stated above, Bat used to make a few bucks off seekers of a piece of western history. He'd pick up an old gun for whenever someone would ask him if he still had one ofhis guns and would sell it. There's probably a few around the N.Y. area that got their provenance that way that were never out west with him during his wilder years. I checked today for Silva's book at Barnes&Nobles web site, no dice. Went on to Borders, they will order it, not in stock item. Bought fell off my seat when I saw the price, $90! It is hardbound with a little over a thousand pages, and this is just Vol. I, Vol. II isn't in print yet. Borders does have a paperback version of Terfertiller's book on Wyatt for $20. May have to settle for that one for awhile. Did find Silva's site for the book, believe it's ......www.earpbook.com........You can buy it from him directly at the same price as Borders plus about $7 shipping..........Buck

[St. George]

This particular piece dated from his days in Arizona and would've been "his" - as opposed to one he'd "supplied" as being "the one"...
Neat story.

Frank James did it for years - and kept a barrel full of "Jesse's Guns" in his shed.

For books - before I'd consider Barnes and Noble's - I'd try:

www.half.com
www.ebay.com
www.amazon.com
www.bibliofind.com

Some will link to one another - but you'd be amazed at what ebay sometimes has - as well as the others.

Good Luck.

Scouts Out!

[Uncle Eph]

I would like to add a couple more places to look for used books: www.abebooks.com and www.powells.com

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Just had to pick this up again. I did get Tefertiller's Wyatt book. Great read. In the meantime, my son found a director's cut DVD set of Tombstone, bunch of extra features in there. Including interviews with the cast, director etc..Still noticed some inaccuracies in the interviews and one during the armorers piece. Showed the S&W American that Virg had, but said that Wyatt was using his Buntline. Don't think he had that 10" barrel down his coat pocket, probably used something shorter that day. During the gun fight, it shows Doc using one barrel to spook the horse one of the cowboys was behind before he blasted him with the other. Don't think that one's straight either. doesn't square with the accounts of the Earp's and some other witnesses. it also includes the Epitaph news article. I think the Nugget article the day after is a little better/truthful version of events..........Buck Something I forgot, The charactor of Texas Jack Vermillion was played by Wyatt Earp III which I didn't know before. Looking at him, you can see some of the family resemblance there. I just wonder what was going through his mind during that time. Kurt Russell related that during the complete run through of the gun fight, just at the start there was a big clap of thunder. The ghosts of the past throwing in their two cents?........Buck

[jrdudas]

I just finished the Tefertiller book and highly recommend it to anyone who's interested.  I have read all of the books on Wyatt Earp (I think), expect the 3 volume set you mentioned.  Even read "I Married Wyatt Earp" by Josie (Sadie) Marcus.  I do believe that her book employs a bit of selective memory.  Tefertiller's version of Josie is not very complimentary.  I also read the book that I think they based the "Tombstone" movie on.  It was written by a woman in 1991 or 1992.  Sorry, can't remember her name or the book title, but it was also a good read.  The Breakenridge and Stuart Lake books seemed slanted and left out a lot of information. 

I moved to Tucson in 1972 and it was generally thought at that time by long-time residents there that Wyatt Earp was an unsavory character.  Not sure what they based that on since Tucson at the time was a mostly Republican town that I would think would include many Earp supporters.  I have been to Tombstone many times and it is very commercial now.  During our first visit there we went to the courthouse; a quite interesting and little visited place.  Another excellent place with a lot of interesting stuff is the Arizona Historical Society at the University of Arizona in Tucson.  By accident I was back visiting Tucson in 1994 when "Tombstone" was being filmed.  While they did use several local location sites in the filming, I was disappointed that they didn't actually use Tombstone.  With the possible exception of one scene that shows the Birdcage Theater in the background, I believe the rest of the town scenes were filmed at Mescal (a old west movie set about 40 miles north of Tombstone.  I think the Curly Bill/Wyatt Earp shoot-out scene was filmed in Sabino Canyon on the outskirts of Tucson.  We were there the day they were filming, but it was closed to tourist traffic.

Please keep us posted on the three volume set you mentioned.

John
     

[Four-Eyed Buck]

John, The anti-Earp feelings stem from the two papers in Tombstone after the Vendetta period. Both papers changed hands and ended up owned by decidedly Cowboy interests. so, as a result, the formerly Earp friendly epitaph started publishing decidedly anti-Earp articles and the remnants of the cowboys friends were the people left in the area after most of the Earp friendly people moved on after the mines went bust. There wasn't much of the pro-Earp people left to counter the vitriol and since the Pro-Earp Epitaph was producing anti articles, most area people didn't catch on that it had changed hands and it became the standard line. If you ever get to read Silva's book on Wyatt, do so. I've just about finished Vol. I, No. II isn't available yet, it examines each contoversy in turn for the Cowtown years using the info from almost all writers to see where the out and outs are and the grey areas and attempts to separate the true Wyatt from the Legend and the Hype. This is not an easy read either, has taken me almost two weeks to get through the meat of it. There's also appendices on the Buntline Legend, The Guns of the West, and others. It's expensive, but to get down to the Real version of Wyatt and the background events that controlled the times, it's worth it..............Buck

[jrdudas]

Four-eyed Buck -  I think your analysis about the anti-Earp feelings is right on target.  Even after several visits to Tombstone I did not realize that the Epitaph had changed owners until I read the Tefertiller book.  I have visited the Epitaph several times and I do not remember seeing any information about the ownership change.  Each book I have read about the affair mentions that most of the Earp supporters moved on shortly after the vendetta.  I watched Tombstone again (for maybe the 8th or 9th time) after finishing the Tefertiller book.  I noticed that the number of those killed in the vendetta as portrayed in the movie far outnumber those that are specified in the book.  I'll look into the Silva book; I'm amazed that after all these years there are authors who can still find new facts.  The next time I'm in Tombstone (which might be in May) I want to visit the courthouse again.  What I found so interesting many years ago might be even more interesting today.

John

[Four-Eyed Buck]

JR, His research on the Buntline is exemplery. Just about explains everything. Other than having exact serials he can just about prove that they're not a literary license. He also concludes that a lot of the things that are in the Lake book aren't really that far off plumb. That's why he used so many other sources and checked them against each other and other available records. The papers of the time aren't always solid evidence either as the writers had their own axes to grind or changed things to suit the political pressures or to make things not appear as bad so as not to hurt business. He does a good job ferreting out the most likely way it really went down and makes things a lot more human than mythical. You get a more accurate understanding of him by understanding the background events that would make the path that he would follow and shaped his actions in the tumultuous events................Buck

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Per the Vendetta, I believe it was Stillwell, Cruz, and Curley Bill. so, that's three. with the shootout at the Alley, he maybe killed one out of them, that's four. The one cowboy back in Dodge before the move to Tombstone, George Hoy or Hoyt. That's five, and those are maybe. They still can't say for sure that Wyatt's shot was the one that downed Hoy. In all the action he was in during that period, he never overused ammo for sure. a remarkable record given the rowdiness of the times. Bet it wasn't mentioned about the attempt on Clum during that period when he left Tombstone in the Epitaph either.Once Curley was out of it, that seemed to end the Vendetta. seems to be just the ones deemed responsible for Morgan's death and the ambush of Virgil, nothing more. and this because  there wouldn't be any satisfaction in the court system of the area, too many alibi's.............Buck

[Four-Eyed Buck]

There are two interesting threads now running on the SASS Wire at the Moment. One is about a statue that will bwe unveiled in Tuscun this week and the other is on Curley Bill and Ringo. Something very interesting has popped up in that one!........Buck

[RRio]

Well, all this readin' about Tombstone....   .... looks like it's time to take another trip, again!

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Rio, It's on my to do list. Can't wait until Silva's second volume comes out......Buck