Lube cookies & wads...

[Button]

Howdy all.
    While I wait to cast some Big Lube boolits, (no molds, no pot etc, etc) I will try using cookies & wads for now. I have de-lubed some commercially cast 200 gr bullets for .44 Special, 44-40 & .45 Colt. I am wondering if it is worth pan lubing them with better lube, since I will need a grease cookie anyway. The grooves are so lilliputian that I wonder if it's worth the trouble. Since they are so small, I think I will need a cookie anyway. Do I also need a lubed wad & card to go on top of the powder? I have FF, I have moosemilk, I am ready to cross over. So will this work in all?: 1. powder; 2. card wad; 3. 1/8 lubed felt wad 4. card wad; 5. bullet.
    The pistols are .45 Colt, the rest are rifle. Already prepped the base pins etc with bore butter.
    I will compress the powder a bit when I insert 1st card.
    I think I have the 12 gauge figgered out.
    I have acquired a Lyman 450 lubrisizer, but again I wonder if it is worth re-lubing the bullets if I have to use a cookie anyway. 
   ( Have never used a lubrisizer. Have correct dies for it.)
   " When you get to a fork in the road... take it!" 
    Button, out.

[Roosterman]

I've been using un lubed bullets with my BP loads. I just smear some lube over the end of the loaded cylinder before I shoot. Works great!

[Button]

That's interesting. Show up at the load table with a jar o lube & a rag to wipe my fingers clean. Doesn't work so good with rifle, though.

[Charlie Bowdre]

Not to start a range war  and I'm far from an expert ..but it is so hot right now that my lube is running out of the lube sizer .
I shoot 38 Big Lube Snake Bites from one of DD molds .
Instead of trying to lube them in the sizer I put i my powder , a card wad , smear some lube in the open case..just about as much as I would pick up on the bullet if it was in the sizer . I use a Popsicle stick to put it on with and then seat the bullet . I shot a match on Sunday in plus 30 degrees C. and had no problems . Shoot fine , no miss fires and super clean up. Lots of lube in the barrel after shooting a stage
Cooler weather comes I'll go back to the sizer..
My lube is the old tried and true BeesWax and Crisco.  bit heavy on the wax cause of the high temps.

Remember to make sure Powder , wad , lube and bullet fill the case.
Works for me .

As for the mini grooved bullets , I 'd try the same thing , you'll not get much lube in those tiny grooves .
Again ...other results may vary .
Have fun
The Bang and Boom is worth all the extras..
Dutchy

[Arcey]

Well done, Dutchy. Proud of ya.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I used to pan lube regular hardcast bullets with a skimpy thin lube groove. To tell you the truth, in a pistol they usually worked fine with no lube cookie or wad at all. I pan lubed with a 50/50 mix of crisco/beeswax, and the thin lube groove carried enough lube for a pistol length barrel. It's in the rifle, with a longer barrel that I needed the extra lube. I used to add a lube cookie about 1/8" thick of bessewax. I used to put a card wad down on top of the powder to keep the lube from adulterating the powder, then the lube cookie. I found out the hard way that the bullet needed to be separated from the lube cookie by another card wad, or else the lube cookie would get glued to the base of the bullet, ruining accuracy. I used to call these my oreo cookie loads. The soft lube cookie was separated from both the powder and the bullet by a card wad. Used to work pretty good, but I still needed to swab out my rifle barrel about halfway through a match.

Your plan will probably work fine, you may need to swab out your barrel at some point to renew the accuracy.

[Charlie Bowdre]

DJ
Will try the second card wad , never thought of the lube sticking on the bullet . Figured it would all burn up in the barrel . Thanks for that info...
Since I'm a Diabetic , I'll call them my Sugar Free Oreo ..in your honor of course!

Dutchy

[Ranch 13]

If you relube those bullets with a quality bp lube such as Sagebrush alox, Black Magic ,  spg,or one of several good homebrew recipes, there's no reason at all to use a lube cookie or a lubed felt wad under the bullet in those short cartridges.
The only time a lube cookie really helps some is in the larger rifle cartridges during hot weather.

Using a quality lube, a .030 fiber wad under the bullet should be suffiicient for a good many rounds before things start getting gunked up to the point of not working.
You most likely would find 3f to work a good bit cleaner than 2f in those cartridges as well.

[Button]

OK, thank's fellas.
I assume everyone is compressing the powder 1/8 " before putting all the other stuff in & just making sure the case is filled up. Already I'm anxious for DD's molds.
DJ: I read ALL your previous posts on this subject, but wasn't quite clear re: using re-lubed bullets. Getting a better picture now. Your lube cookie was straight bee-sperm? I think I'll just roll up my sleeves & get going in the shop & kitchen & see what happens. I don't have the fancy fingernails like you, though.    How's that .303 Brit runnin'?
Lubing a cartridge gun like a front-stuffer was a new one & sounds workable to me. Good one.
Button, out.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I'll add only a bit here.

Like DJ said, the lube grooves on that commercial bullet (if re-lubed the pan way) would probably do fine for a pistol.  I used to use commercial bullets, WITH the wax lube intact, using the "smear grease over the loaded chamber, a'la' C&B pistols" method with great success for several years.  The wax lube didn't make any difference either way, so I didn't waste time de-waxing them.  I found a good way for rifles, too, but I won't divulge my secret, because I don't feel like having a possibility of someone doing it wrong and messing up something.

Once your mould gets here and you start using softer lead alloys (wheelweight at the hardest) and that great amount of lube hauled by the BigLube boolits, you'll be set - pistol AND rifle.

While using hard-cast bullets with BP CAN be made to work, I've found that hard-cast and BP are best left separate.

[Driftwood Johnson]

DJ: I read ALL your previous posts on this subject, but wasn't quite clear re: using re-lubed bullets. Getting a better picture now. Your lube cookie was straight bee-sperm? I think I'll just roll up my sleeves & get going in the shop & kitchen & see what happens. I don't have the fancy fingernails like you, though.    How's that .303 Brit runnin'?
Lubing a cartridge gun like a front-stuffer was a new one & sounds workable to me. Good one.
Button, out.

I used two different types of lube cookies. At first, I rolled out my 50/50 mix of Beeswax/Crisco into thin sheets and punched out wads from that. They were pretty soft and gooey, and they were the ones that got stuck to the base of a bullet. Later, I went down to the craftstore and bought sheets of beeswax. These sheets have a pattern embossed on them and are meant to be rolled up to make candles. I would spread a sheet of beeswax out, and after seating a wad over the powder to hold it in place I would turn the charged case upside down and use it to punch the wads out. I would use two layers of beeswax for each cartridge, the sheets are pretty thin. I never actually compressed the powder until the bullet was seated on top of the powder, wad, cookie, wad column. In truth, the bullet was probably compressing the wads and cookies more than it was the powder, but it worked fine anyway.

You don't really want to be compressig powder in a case with a stick while you are leaning over the case. If by some fluke the powder should happen to ignite, the stick will go through you like an arrow. Never put your head or face over such a contraption.

The fancy fignernails belong to Mrs Johnson, who posed for some of the photos.

Unfortunately, the 303 British adventure never really got started. Need to get back on track with that, I have all the components assembled now, plus I bought the dies and a case trimmer.