Conversions

[Noz]

First of all in big black type-I'm not trying to start a fight
I have never understood the logic behind buying a cap and ball revolver then turning around and buying a conversion cylinder for it. The price of the two together would easily buy a gun that was made to shoot cartridges in the first place and probably do a better job of it.
Is it simply that you want to look like a cap and ball shooter but just don't want the mess?
My feeling is if you buy a cap and ball revolver, then plan on shooting a cap and ball revolver. I know that historically many of the old guns were converted but then it was for practical reasons. Those reasons no longer apply. Very few people make a living in such an atmosphere that a side arm is necessary and those that do do not carry 1850s technology on their hip.
I think the only argument that I would accept is "just because".

[Major 2]

you said it... yourself

"...historically many of the old guns were converted"

HISTORY,  passion , desire

let me put it to you then....

Why would someone spend $$$$$$$ restoring a Model T or a 50's /60's automobile when the same money would buy a
2008 whatever ?
Or a guy rebuild a old Motor Bike ? when he could get a Honda ?
own a Master when a digital photo would do.
Antique furnature when PVC and vinyl is available 

resaons  ?  "... Those reasons no longer apply "..... they don't need to apply 

I shot RUGERS * for 40 years, owned BP Colts over 30 years, one is converted...
I shoot Henry's & Conversions now because I desire it !


"just because"  ?  It's whatever floats your boat... shoot a conversion some... then You'll know 


* And S&W's and 1911's, and, and ,and 

[Pony Racer]

NR - I like the conversions - they are much heavier than the cartridge guns RM and OT's.  Plus since I tend to be the historically minded gent and know that the USN and USRCS converted their stores of C&B guns - I like that too.  I will say I think that the conversions with loading levers left on point just like the C&B's, the modern RM's and OT's point well but not as nice as the C&B's (my opinion).

Some like that you can get the conversion cylinders and shoot both cartridge and C&B out of same pistol.

On the money issue you are a little off.  I routinely can buy a barely used C&B for around 120-150.00.  If I am patient I can buy a conversion cylinder for around 200.00.  So now you have a c&b pistol and cartridge gun for under 400.00.  You can get that good of a price for an RM or OT but you can not convert them to a C&B.

I have a pair of OT's in 44R and I have my 1851's permanently converted to cartridge (I shoot 38 spl - so barrels sleeved).  I like them both for what they are.

My question to you - really is why do you care?  More guns the better - if people want to shoot C&B's converted or the new RM/OT cartridge guns - thats their choice and - isn't great that we have that choice??

[Dalton Masterson]

Because I can. I shoot my c&bs as c&bs mostly, but on occasion, I like the conversion cylinders. You get to play with the guns you are used to, and can shoot percussion or cartridge. How does it get any better?!! DM

[Paladin UK]

Ol` PUK sits back in his armchair `n gets comfy......  thinks to hisownself....  this thread is gonna get reeel innerestin 

Paladin (    ) UK

[Noz]

Nope, PUK ain't trying to start a fight just never could understand.

The most valid point raised so far is making a cartridge firing gun that points better than most of the others out there. From my own experience I can say that the 1860 Army points better than any cartridge gun I have ever fired.

The other point of "just because" or "because I can" works too.

Two guns for the price of one and a half? Well maybe.

Any other ideas.

[JL McGillicuddy]

My reasoning is, perhaps, a bit more pragmatic.  I bought my Ruger Old Armys to shoot BP cap and ball.  I have a pair of Vaqueros that I shoot smokeless in when I shoot GF, and don't really want to shoot BP full time in them, so I am saving up to get a pair of Kirst Konverters to be able to shoot cartridge loads in my Old Armys so I can have the boom with less work at the match.

Jack Lee

[Cuts Crooked]

I'm an NCOWS member so I'd have to say...because they are historically correct for the time period I wish to portray.

[Rube Burrows]

I myself am a gun collector. I collect most anything that catches my eye. Ever since I can remember I have loved the look of the c&b pistols. The 1851, 1860, Dragoon and so on have always caught my eye. Up untill recently I have not really wanted to mess with the BP aspect of the pistol. To be able to convert a pistol that has the look you love to shoot the type of ammo you like would be very appealing to some.

I myself have not converted anything yet. I did finally start buying some BP pistols and at some point may want to convert. It makes me happy to know that I can do that if I so choose. Guns are just like any other hobby....you can do things the way YOU want to do things. They are after all ........your guns.

I love seeing the new ideas people come up with. There is much to be learned from each of the shooters and just like in the old days.......some guys like one thing....and some guys like another. 

[Dick Dastardly]

I have ROAs with both C&B and Kirst Konverters.  They ain't historically politically correct, but they sure shoot good, with both cylinders.  That gives me SASS Category options.  Now, I've added a brace of Pietta 1860 Colt Army 44s.  I have both the original C&B and Kirst Konverters for them as well as Kirst ejectors.

More options.

Besides, in rainy weather I'm a wuss.  I like my caps, powder and ball all in one neat brass case (cartridge).

There are lots of reasons.  There are also lots of reasons for sticking with the original C&B configuration of yer guns.

So, do what pleases ya most.  I just like the Eastwood plan with the conversions now and then.  Of course, I fancy myself thin, mean, quick and deadly also. . . .

DD-DLoS

[Black Powder]

Historical accuracy.  I upgrade today; my persona ca. 1880 probably did too.

Financial.  I came to CAS already owning an 1860.  I just bought my first SAA.  It may be a while before I can get the second.  I'll be shooting both c&b and cartridge.  I wouldn't consider carving out a spot for a loading gate in my 60, but if I can tweak the wedge so I can pop it out with only my thumb, I'd consider a R&D drop-in.  Engraved of course.

BP

[Adirondack Jack]

For the most satisfying reason of all.......  Because we can 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

OK, let's try this reasoning on for size. I bought my old EuroArms Remmie brand, spanky new back around 1975 or so, long before cartridge conversion cylinders were easily available. That's so long ago I can't even remember where I bought it, and I have no idea how much I paid for it. I enjoyed shooting it as a C&B, that's the only way it was possible to shoot it in those days. But no matter how much I paid for it, that money was spent so long ago that it's just water under the bridge now. A few years ago when I saw I could buy an R&D cylinder for it for about $200, I looked at it like I was getting a brand new cartridge revolver for just over $200, because I had already owned the Remmie for so long. Seemed like quite a deal to me, a nice distinctintive cartridge revolver like the Remmie for just $200. How could I pass up such a deal?

A few years later, I came across a used Uberti Stainless Remmie complete with R&D conversion cylinder, for no more than the cost of any other used Italian single action revolver. Again, seemed like a no-brainer to me, a nice, distinctive pistol, a nice match for my other cartridge Remmie, and no more than any other used single action revolver.

That's my logic for why I own two conversion cylinder equipped C&B revolvers. I didn't pay anywhere near as much as you are talking about, and I have a very nifty brace of distinctive pistols.

Don't you agree?



For what it's worth, I never shoot Smokeless through my Remmies, only Black Powder, usually 45 Schofields.

And it just so happens I have a pair of Uberti Colt 1860 Armies on order, that I intend to shoot C&B and do not intend to use with conversion cylinders.

[Pony Racer]

DJ, I like your reasoning.

I have a pair of 1851's that I am leaving as C&Bs

I have a pair that I permanently converted as well.

PR

[Dick Dastardly]

Howdy Driftwood,

Silas and I ran an extended torture test on his 58 with Kirst Konverter cylinder and C45S brass, bp and EPP-UG Big Lube™ bullets.  He may have already submitted the article to the CC.

We found that, contrary to popular dogma, the 58 shot very accurately and functioned fine all the way thru the test.  Cleanup was very easy.

FWIW, that wasn't Swiss powder either.  It was the cheapest bp I've been able to lay my hands on.  I use it in all my torture tests because if stuff performs well with it, it'll do even better with more spendy bp.

One other bullet that really ran fine in the 58 with C45S brass is your own J/P 45-200 Big Lube™ design.  Seems 58s like the extra lube splashing around to keep fouling around the cylinder base pin soft.

DD-DLoS

[sundance44`s]

 I have a serious love affair with the 1858 Remington Pistols ...nothing fits my hand better , or feels better in hand to me ..If I had lived back in the day , I would have converted my Remmies and they would have been my main stay for life ..I can load and unload a Remmie conversion as fast sometimes faster than any Colt peacemaker I own ..My converted Remingtons also shoot straighter than any Colt Peacemaker Clone that I`ve shot ...Has it cost me more to buy Remmies and conversion cylinders ...no it hasn`t ..not one penny more ..and I end up with a Pistol that is a pleasure to shoot cap and ball out of in the spring and fall ...on real cold days ...( I`m still out there ) I`ll use my conversion cylinders because my cold old hands have a hard time enjoying the cap and ball loading but I`m still able to use my favorite Pistols with black powder cartridges . Last but not least I`ve spent more money than I should have staying historically correct with my collection of black powder guns when I show my collection to folks they enjoy hearing the history behind each fire arm  ..fact is from 1868 untill 1876 the Conversion cylinders in 1858 Remingtons were the best thing on the market for the common folks ..The Army got their 1873 Colt in 1873 BUT it wasn`t offered to the public untill 1876 . Thats 9 years of good solid Remingtons with conversion cylinders ...I can`t speak for the Colt open top lovers , they would be a bit of trouble for me to load conversion cylinders in , so I`ve never done that . It just doesn`t get any better than an 1858 Remmie and a conversion cylinder .....

[Nichols Creek Ranger]

1.Cause I can.
2. I had the BP pistols before I started in CAS.
3. I use my BP pistols to hunt with.
and the biggest reason
4. I like to keep the people I shoot with guessing what I'm gonna be using from one stage to the next.

[Dick Dastardly]

The cool look and great pointability of the 60s got my wallet.  So, I bought some and converted them via Kirst.  I like 'em.

DD-DLoS

Ooops, them ones on the bottom are ROAs with Kirst Konverters. . .  Oh well.