Reloading the 44-40, Help Darksiders!

[John Barleycorn]

Ok, I just got back from the PA State SASS shoot and I didn't plan on buying a rifle, but I did. An Uberti 1873 in 44-40 I plan on this being my  main black powder rifle and occasional smokeless use. I have loaded straight wall  rifle/pistol but never any rifle or bottle neck rounds. I need advice on who's dies to buy, as well as brass,( best bang for the buck) and how-to load tips. Thanks all,  JB

[Noz]

I'm also new to the 44-40.
Here's what I've learned. Contrary to popular myth the Starline brass is not thicker at the neck than Winchester or Remington(at least in my samples). therefore I think the best brass buy(from other caliber experience) is Starline.
I'm a Lee die fan and mine are loading quite well. I am doing fine with OAL falling from as low a 1.560 to as high as 1.590. Doesn't seem to matter in my 66.
I have a big lube mold on the way and until it arrives I'm running 777 and Bushwacker bullets. My 66 likes the .429 44 bullet.
When the big lube arrives I'll go to real black.
My 66 had a very weak mainspring in it. One observer thought it might be a competition spring. Would not reliably fire CCI primers. Got that switched out and even with a stock spring she's pretty smooth right out of the box. Little bit of a different motion involved from the Marlin and will take a little getting used to.
150 rounds thru it and no dirt of any type in the receiver.
I think I'm going to love it.

[John Barleycorn]

Is that the Lee pacesetter dies? How about lubing cases, what is involved?

[Noz]

Nope, just regular dies.

So far, even my fired cases are being sized only in the neck area so no lube is required. The crimp length is critical. I'm used to loading 41 mags so I like to run them all the way in and squeeze them till they squeal. The brass necks on the 44-40 are too thin and won't allow that. I had to lighten up a bunch and really adjust for proper length to keep from wrinkling cases. the last 200 I've loaded I have not had a wrinkle.

[Dick Dastardly]

Since your dies are not carbide dies, watch for binding.  If it happens, lube lightly.  I bought, many years ago, a tub of anhydrous lanolin.  I would dip my pinkies into it and rub a little on the brass.  Very soft pinkies and very smooth brass.   You don't have to rub each one, but the odd ones may get jealous and stick.  Use the force to detect this.

Once your brass is neck sized and the spent primers pushed out, you can load the rest of the stages same as you do with pistol brass.

So, now you know of my affinity for the sheep. . . .

DD-DLoS

[John Barleycorn]

So I dont run the press to the top of the stroke, or is that the top on a bottle neck bullet die?

[springfield]

Use some spray lube on the brass and then size them just like anything else. Just be careful when starting the stroke so that you don't catch the edge of the brass 'cause it will crumple, they are not nearly as strong as 45 Colt or 44 special or any of the newer calibers, that's why they work so well for BP. I like my RCBS Cowboy dies, found they didn't scrape the sides of my soft lead bullets like my Dillon dies did. Tried the LEE FCD dies but didn't like the look of the crimp and they didn't work any better than the RCBS loaded  cartridges.

[Noz]

I bought Lee FCD for 41 and 44 mag. They are laying on the shelf unused after the first try. I am not a fan.

[Fox Creek Kid]

The secret to reloading 44-40 IMO is to seat the bullet and crimp with two different dies.    I seat the bullet with the seating die to the proper depth but with the die screwed out enough so as not to crimp as well. I then crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Never lost a case this way. I also do not resize as rounds loaded as described chamber in both my rifles. 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I am going to stick with the myth regarding Winchester brass being thinner than other brands. It has been with the brass that I've measured. Usually around .007 thick at the case mouth vs .008 thick with most other brands. This does not matter a whole hill of beans UNLESS you are in the situration of needing to use a large diameter bullet, because of a large bore, around .429 in diameter, and a tight chamber. In that situation, .001 of case thickness can make a difference. My '73 shoots well with .427, .428, or .429 diameter bullets, but a .429 bullet does not chamber well, because the chamber is tight. The thinnest brass possible can make a difference in this situation.

It would be useful for you to slug your bore, to find out exactly what diameter bullet you need. 44-40 barrels can vary. Three of my 44-40 rifles, a Winchester Model 1892 from 1894, a Marlin Model 1894 from 1895, and my Uberti Model 1873 all have groove diameters of .427, the original 19th Century standard. My Uberti Henry is newer, and it slugs out at .429. As a compromise, I used to shoot .427 diameter bullets in the '73, '92, and '94, but once I got the Henry I compromised with .428 diameter bullets.

I use a regular RCBS set of 44-40 dies, not the cowboy dies. When loading brand new Winchester brass out of the bag, I do not bother to lube my brass, the sizing die hardly touches them. However after they have been fireformed I must lube my brass or it will get stuck in the sizing die. Not all brands of dies have the exact same interior dimensions, so you may get away without lubing your brass. I recommend at least lubing the first time to see. I use Hornady One Shot spray case lube in the red can. Just a little dab will do ya.

If you happen to be using a fairly large diameter bullet, like .429 or .430, you may cut down on the amount of neck crumpling you experience by using the expanding plug from a 44 Magnum belling die. Most 44-40 expander plugs are designed for .427 bullets. 44 Mag/44 Special expander plugs are a tiny bit larger for .429 or .430 bullets. If you are using a larger bullet, you will get more friction when you seat your bullets, so the larger plug may help cut down on friction, and cut down on neck crumpling.

I must be the last person on the face of the earth who seats my bullets and crimps in one step with a conventional seating/crimping die. I don't see what all the hoopla is about separate crimp dies. I must respectfully disagree with Fox Creek Kid. I believe the secret is to set the die carefully so the crimp is fully formed just as the bullet is seated the final amount. If the crimp is completely formed before the bullet is completely seated, that is a good recipe for crumpling that .007-.008 thick case mouth right under the bullet.

[Henry4440]

I must be the last person on the face of the earth who seats my bullets and crimps in one step with a conventional seating/crimping die.

Same to me.Seats my bullets and crimps in one step. I'm using Starline cases and the regular RCBS set.Have made thousands 44-40 without any problems.

[Noz]

I must be the last person on the face of the earth who seats my bullets and crimps in one step with a conventional seating/crimping die. I don't see what all the hoopla is about separate crimp dies. I must respectfully disagree with Fox Creek Kid. I believe the secret is to set the die carefully so the crimp is fully formed just as the bullet is seated the final amount. If the crimp is completely formed before the bullet is completely seated, that is a good recipe for crumpling that .007-.008 thick case mouth right under the bullet.

Nope, me too.
My 500 new Starline 44-40 cases all mic .007.

[Fingers McGee]

I must be the last person on the face of the earth who seats my bullets and crimps in one step with a conventional seating/crimping die. I don't see what all the hoopla is about separate crimp dies. I must respectfully disagree with Fox Creek Kid. I believe the secret is to set the die carefully so the crimp is fully formed just as the bullet is seated the final amount. If the crimp is completely formed before the bullet is completely seated, that is a good recipe for crumpling that .007-.008 thick case mouth right under the bullet.

No DJ, you're not the last person.  That's the way I've always done it.  The onliest time I ever crunch a case is when I'm not paying attention to what I'm doing. 

Fingers (who's too lazy to add an extra step) McGee

[springfield]

I seat and crimp with one die in 44-40 but use 2 dies with my 45 Colt.

[Paladin UK]

My Lee seats` n crimps in one foul sweep


Paladin (What lurvs his  ol Lee Progressive  ) UK

[Coal Creek Griff]

As far as lubing cases, I use spray-on lube and I lube the dies every few times I reload.  That seems to work fine for me.  I also crimp with the seating die, by the way.  I use a separate die for some calibers, like .45-70, that seem to appreciate it, if you know what I mean.

CC Griff

[HorsePen Henry]

Fellas, I got to say this has been a great reading thread and very informative. This needs to be a sticky IMHO. Lots a 44-40 shooters probably will read this time and again. I know I will.
Thanks for all the good input and information shared here.

X Horse Pen

[Black Powder]

Me too!

Well said, XHP

BP