conversion cylinders - looking for opinions

[JL McGillicuddy]

Gang,

    I am planning to buy a pair of conversion cylinders for my Ruger Old Armys in the next couple of months. 

    I am wondering if those of you that have experiences with the Kirst and R and D conversion cylinders could tell me your opinions of them.  I am looking for pros and cons of each.  The major difference I see between them is the revolving cylinder/single firing pin design of the Kirst over the fixed/6 firing pin design of the R and D. 

    My guns are blued 5.5 inch Old Armys, so the stainless/nickel question is non material.

Thanks!
Jack Lee

[Dick Dastardly]

First of all, I have to admit prejudice.  Walt Kirst has given me dealer status and I'll be selling his products.

All that said, I do have and shoot his Kirst Konverter cylinders in my Ruger Old Army guns.  So does my sidekick, Silas McFee.  We are very pleased with them for their smooth function.  Their fit and finish are better than the Ruger original C&B cylinders.  The guns shoot very accurately with them.

I also have a Kirst Konverter cylinder in my little spur trigger Remington .31.  Love it.

Now, I bought a brace of 1860 Colts and they are in Walt's hands for Kirst Konverter cylinders and ejector rods.  Those open tops will have that Eastwood feeling.

DD-DLoS

[Cuts Crooked]

  The major difference I see between them is the revolving cylinder/single firing pin design of the Kirst over the fixed/6 firing pin design of the R and D. 

 

I like the Kirst better for that very reason, fewer parts = fewer things to go wrong!. Always keep Murphy in mind!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rebel]

Ahhh, but if you break the firing pin in the Kirst you are done. With the R&D you have 5 other firing pins so you are still shooting.

[JL McGillicuddy]

Now, this may sound silly, but not having seen these units up close, how do you spot the empty chamber on a Kirst?  I know with the R&D units they have "windows" that allow you to see which chamber is loaded.

Jack Lee

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Magic.



A small attempt at humour.      

[Deadeye Don]

I have RandDs for all of my percussion revolvers with the exception of my Paterson, but only because they are not made.   I like the RandDs just fine.  I even got one for my little 1849 which I have still to shoot for the first time.   I have never had a Kirst cylinder, but I am sure you couldnt go wrong with those either.

[Dick Dastardly]

No matter where this thread leads, don't let it digress into a contest about Magnum loads.  Even though the Kirst Konverters have been tested to SAAMI maximum pressures for 45 Colt, and beyond, it's no reason to expect black powder guns to take that kind of continuous abuse.

So, careful where you tread.  ALL the conversion cylinders are for Black Powder only.  Or, maybe some sub/replica powders. . .

The Kirst products have a fantastic guarantee.  I use 'em and I love 'em.

Keep your loads on the safe side no matter what cylinder you choose.

DD-DLoS

[Pettifogger]

I have Kirsts in some open top Colt clones, but I have the R&Ds in my Rugers.  Both are of exceptional quality and you will be satisfied with either.

[Howdy Doody]

Both Kirst and R&D work real well in ROAs. I went with Kirst myself. The reasoning I had was that they use only one firing pin and it rebounds. Plus I liked the funnel they put on the recoil plate so that when you slip the converter in from the right side a flat stays on the bottom frame and the funnel or groove slips right over the hand and pushes it back while you center it and stab the center pin. It is very fast to install and I have found mine to be timed very well. I judge that by no shaved lead anywhere around the cylinder gap. I shoot a .454 diameter bullet in mine and am hapy with them.
I also know some folks that shoot the R&D and they like them just fine too. I like that you can get stainless in R&D and my Kirsts are nickle plated for my SS ROAs. The nickle is discoloring after shooting them about 4 years or so.

[Driftwood Johnson]

So, careful where you tread.  ALL the conversion cylinders are for Black Powder only.  Or, maybe some sub/replica powders. . .

Dick,

The information that came with one of the R&D cylinders for my Remmies says:

".45 Long Colt "Cowboy Ammunition" (their italics, not mine) is nationally available from a number of well known manufacturers. This ammunition is loaded for a maximum muzzle velocity of 750 to 850 fps., and these are the specifications we recommend.
Black Powder reloads can be loaded with up to a maximum 34 grains of FFg black powder or black powder equivalent."

[Deadeye Don]

Yep,  I have been shooting smokeless cowboy loads just fine per RandD recommendations.

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks DJ and DD,

Yes, I've shot smokeyless fad heathen loads with my ROAs and Kirst Konverter cylinders.  They were indeed cowboy level loads.  No worries.  But, once the bp to smokeyless line is crossed there is no upper boundary like there is with Holy Black.  Ruger says in it's literature that ships with the ROAs "Black Powder only".  I'm sure the other guns, like my open top 60s, won't handle the pressure of strong 45 Colt loads.  Extended shooting exacerbates the problem.

So, even though I have knowledge of where the upper limits are, there are shooters that may not know or respect them.  I'd never want to learn that some shooter, upon bad advice from this wiire, blew up a gun and suffered the consequences along with anybody nearby.

Please respect the pressure designs for the guns you shoot.  If you want a Magnum, buy one.  Original 44 Magnum RVs are a good choice for tall loads.

DD-DLoS

[Cuts Crooked]

Ahhh, but if you break the firing pin in the Kirst you are done. With the R&D you have 5 other firing pins so you are still shooting.

Nope! Jist replace the pin rioght on the spot! (like I said, keep Murphy in mind) With the R&D you might/could have multiple pins go at once!

[JL McGillicuddy]

Thanks gang!

I pack my BP loads pretty tight, but don't play in the high end of the smokeless spectrum.  May not ever put smokeless in the Old Armys anyway.  Just love the feel of that buck and roar. 

Has anybody managed to blow up any of these conversions that anyone knows of with BP??  I load my .45colt loads pretty full and don't want to manage a failure.  I don't think that would have a whole lot of fun factor. 

By the way; I had my Old Armys out at a match for the first time this weekend.  I took it as high praise when the TO looked at me before a stage and said "I am not coming into that building with you.  I will time you from this window." 



What do you think? 

[Bow View Haymaker]

Now, this may sound silly, but not having seen these units up close, how do you spot the empty chamber on a Kirst?  I know with the R&D units they have "windows" that allow you to see which chamber is loaded.

Jack Lee

I have a kirst in a Pietta Remington new army.
When loaded there is a slight gap between the cylinder and back plate so you can see part of the rims.  they are partly recessed into the cylinder.  Also, mine is the 5 shot with a sixth safty chamber/noth to rest the hammer in. Just put the notch at the top and let the loading oficer look across the back to see where the rims are. 
Alot easier than my EAA Bounty Hunter which has the rims fully recessed and no way to see which chamber is empty when thegate is closed.

[classicballistx]

We echo Dick's and Howdy's comments.

Howell's cylinder works and shoots well, but our results with Walt's cylinder approach accuracy results with our own Classicballistx BP percussion cylinder. A testament to both the .45LC and Walt! Even more so

Add to that the fewer parts, a rebounding firing pin, and the slick in-out and you have the reasons from a practicality standpoint. We have used his cylinder in '58's and Colts with good results as well. The caveat is that replica guns are all over the map in cylinder bore dimension, not the case with Ruger. This doesn't indict either Walt's or R&D's cylinder, but rather the inconsistency of replica BP guns.

We very much like Walt's work and we'll bet you won't be disappointed with the performance in your Old Army.

Regards,

Wisent
Classicballistx.com

[Pitspitr]

I have a Kirst in my Pietta Remington and like it. My friend Ned Niederlander has R&D's He likes them.