trapdoor carbine vs rifle

Pony Soldier · March 17, 2008, 03:07:10 PM

I am considering the purchase of a trapdoor (uberti or pedersoli) for use in long range side matches. I would normally go with the rifle, but since my persona is cavalry I am partial to a carbine. Does anybody know how accurate these are? What is the spread on the shoot group of the rifle vs the carbine? I'm not a great shot, more for fun, but don't want to embarrass myself.

River City John · March 17, 2008, 06:22:07 PM

Pony Soldier,
If you're talking about shooting long range, 100 yds.- 200 yds. or farther, I'd think the rifle would serve you better. The carbine will loft 'em out there, but your frustration level may increase trying to get consistent accuracy.

I'd plan on the carbine for typical CAS ranges when main-match shooting and rounding out your impression, and get a rifle for long range shooting.
Just my opinion.

Drydock · March 17, 2008, 07:21:03 PM

At a GAF side match, I actualy won the long range gong match using my Pedersoli TD carbine. Mostly because I had loaded my rounds to Milspec using the Pat Wolf book. As the ranges were known, I simply set my barrel sight to the range and banged away, with the rounds allready calibrated to the sight. Great fun at 500 yards.

If your shooting gongs, and you have milspec ammo and sights, the carbine will do you fine. though I'd hesitated if going greater than 500 yards. If you are shooting for score though, the rifle and its 500 grain bullet will serve you better.

It also allows you some better flexibility. THe carbine is a better hunting weapon, and most regiments had someone with a civilian spec long rifle to reach out if needed. In particular the 7th, in which one man carried a scope equipped Sharps at LBH, up on Reno Hill. IE get the carbine, then eventualy you can choose any Longer range period weapon you want.

Good excuse to have both, though by all means start with the carbine and the Pat Wolf book, IMHO.

Pony Soldier · March 17, 2008, 08:16:42 PM

Thanks guys. I use a 1860 Henry for my main match rifle. I think I'm leaning to the trapdoor rifle, but would still like to know the spread of the shot group for each.

River City John · March 17, 2008, 08:32:18 PM

Quote from: Pony Soldier on March 17, 2008, 08:16:42 PM
Thanks guys. I use a 1860 Henry for my main match rifle. I think I'm leaning to the trapdoor rifle, but would still like to know the spread of the shot group for each.

That literally will vary with every rifle. You'll have a lot of fun experimenting with different powders, bullet weights, lubes, sight settings for windage and elevation, etc. to find what your rifle likes. Good suggestion to use the load combinations found in some of the references. As Sgt. Drydock mentioned, Pat Wolf's is the bible for the trapdoor and its care & feeding.
I would also plan on putting some extra money aside for upgrading sights if you're talking l-o-o-on-g range, 500yds out to 1000yds..

Pony Soldier · April 15, 2008, 10:06:48 PM

I received the following reply from the customer service at Pedersoli:

If the rifle and carbine were clamped down, removing human influence, the 100 yard group size would be close to equal in size between both guns. The rifling being equal quality in both. The carbine barrel being shorter has a lower vibration mode giving smaller groups but...longer sight radius of the rifle giving more accurate sighting alignment. In human hands and standing upright (off hand shooting) without artificial support, and under equal conditions, the rifle would be expected to produce 100 yard groups of approx 2.0 to 3.0 inches while the carbine would make approx 3.0 to 4.0 inch groups. On a solid bench bag the rifle would be 1.0 to 1.2 inches and the carbine about 1.5 to 2.0 inch groups (due to sighting radius differences only). Working the most accurate loading for each gun is a vital part of final accuracy.

Hope this info can help others

Steel Horse Bailey · April 15, 2008, 11:52:37 PM

Nice "official" info to have! Thanks

Pitspitr · April 16, 2008, 06:24:12 AM

PS, if you're looking at a Pedersoli trapdoor for long range shooting I can highly recomend their long range model. It shoots far better than any of the originals I've owned. (see the November/December NCOWS SHOOTIST magazine for the review I wrote) Then about all you'll need is a M-1881 500 gr. bullet mould from SAECO or Lyman.

Major Matt Lewis · April 16, 2008, 07:18:10 PM

Carbine will get you style points, but I have never seen style points bring home a trophy.....Just my 2 cents.

Steel Horse Bailey · April 16, 2008, 07:46:25 PM

Quote from: Sgt. Drydock on March 17, 2008, 07:21:03 PM
At a GAF side match, I actualy won the long range gong match using my Pedersoli TD carbine. Mostly because I had loaded my rounds to Milspec using the Pat Wolf book. As the ranges were known, I simply set my barrel sight to the range and banged away, with the rounds allready calibrated to the sight. Great fun at 500 yards.

If your shooting gongs, and you have milspec ammo and sights, the carbine will do you fine. though I'd hesitated if going greater than 500 yards. If you are shooting for score though, the rifle and its 500 grain bullet will serve you better.

It also allows you some better flexibility. THe carbine is a better hunting weapon, and most regiments had someone with a civilian spec long rifle to reach out if needed. In particular the 7th, in which one man carried a scope equipped Sharps at LBH, up on Reno Hill. IE get the carbine, then eventualy you can choose any Longer range period weapon you want.

Good excuse to have both, though by all means start with the carbine and the Pat Wolf book, IMHO.

Quote from: Major Matt Lewis on April 16, 2008, 07:18:10 PM
Carbine will get you style points, but I have never seen style points bring home a trophy.....Just my 2 cents.

Well, Maj. Matt, thanks to Sgt. Drydock, now you HAVE "seen" someone get the style points AND the trophy with a carbine!

Major Matt Lewis · April 16, 2008, 08:24:28 PM

Nope...If I recall the victory it was at the GAF Muster 2 years ago. I can tell you that Sgt. Drydocks victory was based on time effort and practice and knowing his load. Just a thought. If it was the match I was thinking of there was no serious competition, myself included.

Dr. Bob · April 17, 2008, 12:27:02 AM

Kinda proves that Sgt. Drydock is a good shot!!

I used to be one, but that was a LONG time ago.

Just in this for the fun! And there is a lot of fun to be had.

Major Matt Lewis · April 17, 2008, 05:58:48 PM

I wouldn't debate Drydock being a fine shot. Wouldn't be prudent. Dr. Bob, from what I had heard about you, you were a very fine shot too.

Dr. Bob · April 17, 2008, 10:30:44 PM

Howdy Maj. Matt,

WERE being the operative word here!

I am a genuine has been! It was great fun and a lot of hard work went into it. Didn't seem much like work back then but I practiced at least 2 hours a night 4 or 5 nights a week while I was in college and shot in 25 - 30 matches a year. In the summer I practiced 3 - 4 hours each weekend with the service rifle and went to 4 or 5 matches and then the Nationals at Camp Perry from age 15 through 21. As my dad said it takes at least 10,000 rounds of practice to learn to shoot a rifle off hand well. That is why I decided to get into CAS just for the fun. before I shot the first round at a target.