Cav officer's saber during/before the Maine got sunk...

[Captain Lee Bishop]

I just got Randy Steffen's book on the 1880-1916 era of the cavalry, but I'm still unsure what kind of cavalry saber would be correct for a officer from, say, 1880 to 1895 or so. From what little I can tell from that and my other books, it appears officers had a different model, but I know that was before the redsign for the lighter "dress" saber they came up with later after the turn of the century.
Which one would correct and who makes a good repro? I also am looking for that device that has a brass hook that hangs off the belt and has straps for both ends to hold a saber. Anyone make that as a repro?

[Rancid Roy]

Captain, if you go to Tombstone Outfitters they are advertising the type of saber hanger you speak of. Look to their "Civil War" link and go to "Leather Goods".

BUT, you must get the little brass hangers that slide onto the belt, these can be found at S & S Firearms from New York. They too are on the web, I forgot the actual "page" the hanger I speak of is displayed. It is rectangular and has a brass hook attached to link into the top ring of the sabre scabbard as well as a "slit" to hang the brass hanger seen on the Tombstone Outfitters hanger.

The M1860 Officer's Sabre might be the one at Legendary Arms on the link below.

http://legendaryarms.stores.yahoo.net/civilwarswords.html

My information may not be correct so please do more research as to the proper saber and equipments, I was reading my Steffen's last night and I think he said the M1860 was the standard sabre until 1901??? I suspect an officer might have carried a private purchase as well.....maybe??

Regards, R.R.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

I was pretty much thinking of a M1860 one anyway, as my idea would be for an officer who's Dad was in the CW and I know several officers did have 1860s, as I've seen them used in photos as late as 1901.
Thanks for the links. I have S&S saved already and have their catalog, I'd never heard of the other one, though!

[St. George]

The Model 1872 saber was correct for the era - being a lighter version of the Model 1860, and featuring the same curved blade and basket hilt.

It wasn't all 'that' common, though - the more practical Model 1860 being preferred on the Frontier when there was a thought of actually having to use a saber.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Rancid Roy]

Captain Bishop,

When you get to S & S Firearms go to "2007 Catalog Naval, Marine Corps, Artillery, Cavalry, & Harness and Saddle Equipment (Pgs 120-130)", when you get there scroll down to page 129 [10 of 11] and you will see a picture of what I think you need with the hanger sold by Tombstone Outfitters. Below the pics is the list of items and #50 is labeled as: HS50 SABRE BELT SLIDES WITH BRASS HANGER, 2 piece set......$18.00.

A couple of pages before this one you will find sword hangers of the type at Tombstone but they are probably authentic because their price is authentic!!

Now the associated hanger and slides I am speaking of here may or may not be correct for the time frame you are wanting but they may also be the only thing close to that time period available at a reasonable price.

I think you will have to buy both slides but the one with the extra hook is actually the only one needed for the type of hanger I am discussing here. I think based on Stefen's drawings.

Regards, R. R.

[Rancid Roy]

Hello Captain Bishop,

I have the exact same item as the link below. According to what I read today in Steffen's this was the issue sword hanger for U. S. Cavalry until 1900 or later......it is called, in Steffen's, the Model 1885.

Mine is in excellent condition. In the pic they have attached both straps to each other, but in reality one strap goes into each ring on the scabbard.

You can have mine for the asking, just give me your address, via P.M. if you like.

I have no use for it as I am doing pre-1884/2 Cavalry "stuff".

This hanger [the Model 1885] with the attachments found at S & S Firearms......or a Mills belt with the attachments already attached should be correct for the time period you want to do.

You may also finds parts at S & S to make the hangers needed on a Mills belt.

http://www.tombstoneoutfitters.com/store/images/tn/civil%20war/leather/tnsaberhanger.jpg

Regards, R. R.

[Rancid Roy]

Hello again Captain Bishop,

I just ordered two brass hangers from S & S Firearms and they are in stock.

Also Dixie Gun Works has two versions of the 1860 Officer's Sabre adverstised on their web site. One appears to the blued scabbard which was a later variation, I think. They are priced at $158.00 I believe plus shipping.

Regards, R. R.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

Thanks again, I had never looked at the Legendary Arms site before, and I also found a knife (1880 Hunting knife) I'd always wanted as a reproduction but had no idea was being made, sold by them for a very good price, too. I couldn't find the slider and loop that was mentioned, though, at any vendor. I had just assumed these went over the belt itself. Does anyone have a specific vendor and part number or link so I know where to look and what I'm asking for if I call or order? BTW, I'm not using a Mills belt, but a leather pistol/sword belt, would I need these loop things or would these just hang over the leather belt? It looks like I would only need the loops if using a Mills belt, right?
Being a longtime WW2 re-enactor, it's tough not to want to have as much stuff hanging off the belt as I can put on it. I am also drooling over that repro 1880 hunting knife, which I think would look great on the back of this pistol belt when I am on the firing line. It sure would kill any "that's not a historically accurate knife" debates before they could start. Would that knife need that "slider" too? It looks like the attachment is the same as the sword hanger we're talking about here. Look the scabbard on this, wouldn't it just hang from the belt itself? What would keep it from flying off the belt in times of extreme "bounciness"? http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/legendaryarms_1982_17916853

[Rancid Roy]

Captain Bishop,

I am no expert but according to what I am seeing in Steffan's books the two brass sliders at S & S Firearms in New York will work on both the webbed and leather belts of the time period.

Go to their site, click on the 2007 "Navy, Marine, Artillery, Cavalry" catalog, scroll down a few pages and its picture is #50 and it is item # HS50 in the listings.

I bought the set today, they are instock.

Send me your address and I'll send you the sabre hanger, no charge.

Email me direct at rancidroy@prodigy.net.

Regards, R. R.

[Old Top]

Capt. Bishop,

I have used keepers like that before and they will slide but do not fall off.  That knife is great I may have to find one like it myself.

Old Top

[Rancid Roy]

Captain Bishop, I received the brass sabre hangers from S & S and they DO NOT fit Mills belts, but they will fit the black leather 1 3/4 inch military belt, so they are probably an 1872/1874 item.

The Mills belt I have is wider than 1 3/4 so the hangers are a no go on that.

I will be sending you the sabre hanger and straps by tomorrow.

Regards, Rancid.

[Grapeshot]

I just got Randy Steffen's book on the 1880-1916 era of the cavalry, but I'm still unsure what kind of cavalry saber would be correct for a officer from, say, 1880 to 1895 or so. From what little I can tell from that and my other books, it appears officers had a different model, but I know that was before the redsign for the lighter "dress" saber they came up with later after the turn of the century.
Which one would correct and who makes a good repro? I also am looking for that device that has a brass hook that hangs off the belt and has straps for both ends to hold a saber. Anyone make that as a repro?

I've been looking for that saber, M1872, as well.  There is no maker for that saber, yet.  The original had a 5/8 inch wide blade at the hilt and was 30 to 32 inches long.  It wa s a very light weight saber suited for dress uniforms and not combat and was the "Required" saber for all cavalry officers until the M1902 saber was introduced that replaced all the other sabers and swords in use by officers at that time.

Most officers continued to carry and use the M1860 Light Cavalry Saber unofficially until the "Patton" saber was issued after the Mexican Punitive Expoedition.

The closest looking saber that's on the market today is the USMC NCO Saber.  You would have to get a nickled scabbord and have all the USMC markings removed and re-etched with US Army etchings on the Blade.

I contacted Atlanta Cutlery to see if I could interest them in producing a copy of the M1872 Cavalry Officer's Saber.  Their reply was ambigous at best.  If enough of us were to send in our requests and oppinions I'm sure they would prevail upon their supplier to make a limited run as all it would really entail is to replace the M1902 Hilt with the Hilt from the USMC NCO saber and attach it to the M1902 Blade and keep the Nickeled scabbord of the M1902.

Good Luck.

[Captain Lee Bishop]

I contacted Atlanta Cutlery to see if I could interest them in producing a copy of the M1872 Cavalry Officer's Saber.  Their reply was ambigous at best.  If enough of us were to send in our requests and oppinions I'm sure they would prevail upon their supplier to make a limited run as all it would really entail is to replace the M1902 Hilt with the Hilt from the USMC NCO saber and attach it to the M1902 Blade and keep the Nickeled scabbord of the M1902.

I was talking with a guy who'd been doing Indian War re-enacting for several years, talking about this. He pointed out how few people do that time period and few of them do officer, and that the idea of a repro doesn't make any sense as there's just not enough people out there who'd buy one to make it worth their while. I found it hard to disagree with him on that point...

[Grapeshot]

I was talking with a guy who'd been doing Indian War re-enacting for several years, talking about this. He pointed out how few people do that time period and few of them do officer, and that the idea of a repro doesn't make any sense as there's just not enough people out there who'd buy one to make it worth their while. I found it hard to disagree with him on that point...

Considering the above, I also agree, however, after seeing some of Atlanta Cutlery's Fantasy, Medevil, Musketeer,  and Pirate blades, one more speciality blade wouldn't hurt their business.

[Captain Barrett]

Captain Bishop,

You may also wish to look through eBay. I got my original M1872 Light Cavalry Saber there for a cheap price, but I think prices have gone up now. My saber was in good shape, but I restored it fully by having parts either gold plated or silver plated and reassembling it. It looks EXTREMELY Good now...

[FTrooper]

Dusan Farrington's Book "Arming & Equipping the United States Cavalry, 1865-1902" is exceptional for that kind of stuff and when it comes to arms and personal equipments it far surpasses any book to date.

He identifies at least two major M1872 Cavalry Sabres.  A lighter "dress version" (most commonly seen) and a heavier "field" version with a blade comparable to the M1860 enlisted.

As mentioned above no one makes either and it is seriously doubted that anyone ever will...the M1860 Officer Sabre carried by Legendary Arms & Dixie Gunworks is just about the closest your gonna find.

Chris Fischer
Curator/Interperter
Fort McKavett SHS

[Captain Lee Bishop]

Dusan Farrington's Book "Arming & Equipping the United States Cavalry, 1865-1902" is exceptional for that kind of stuff and when it comes to arms and personal equipments it far surpasses any book to date.

Yeah, I recently got a copy of that book (and I agree 100% that it's a very good book) and drooled at all the neat stuff in there I'll never be able to afford...

[Captain Lee Bishop]

I'm seriously considering bidding on this on eBay, up right now, but it doesn't have a scabbard: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=270421&ppid=1122&image=118879555&images=118879545,118879555,118879571,118879575,118879583,118879599,118879618&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0
Sure, the markings aren't correct, but in a scabbard it's not that bad replica from what I can see. Crying shame it doesn't come with a scabard...

[Drydock]

http://www.amessword.com/