USFA is at it again!

[Doc Sunrise]

OK!

I came home a couple of days ago with a new USFA Premium SAA in all Blue with Case Colored Hammer, 4 3/4" .44-40 and Ultra Aged Tru-Ivory Grips with a special serial number.  I finally got to take it apart and give it a good looking over today.  I was very pleased.  Very Pleased!  The internal parts are in excellent condition and well finished.  I couldn't find a burr or rough edge to save my life.  There is no doubt in my mind that USFA is not only holding their quality to high standards, but in the process of growing and expanding their line, their quality seems to have risen.

P.S.  Thanks Gary.  Time from order to delivery was very good, and the gun looks great.

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Congratulations, Doc!  Just out of curiosity, what was the order time?  I only ask so that I can compare it to what is going on in the "enemy camp" at Colt.
For those of you who have been on the board for awhile, some of this may sound familiar.  In  the past I have made reference to the worst gun I have ever owned, a nickel plated 4 & 3/4 Colt SAA .45, manufactured in the mid 1990's.  Shot 24" groups at 25 yards from a bench rest.  Consistently!  It was one of a cased, matching set, with ivory grips.  Last year I finally got sick and tired of looking at it and decided to order a new Colt to replace it.  Dealer took it in as a deposit on the new gun (I told him that it was a wildly inaccurate POS and he took it anyhow - I love that guy).  That was March 26, 2007, when he placed the order for a new nickel plated Colt SAA (a catalog item) and we are still waiting.  About two months after he place the order, my dealer placed another order for a standard CCH/blue SAA with ivory grips and he has yet to see that one as well.
So...  It's nice to know that we can always rely on USFA to deliver in a timely manner. 

[Fox Creek Kid]

...the worst gun I have ever owned, a nickel plated 4 & 3/4 Colt SAA .45, manufactured in the mid 1990's.  Shot 24" groups at 25 yards from a bench rest.  Consistently!

Did you ever have a competent 'smith diagnose the problems?    I say this as I bought an Armi San Marco 7.5" 44-40 years ago and it shot the same as yours, i.e., awful. I then slugged the chambers & bore. Diagnosis: 0.432 groove diameter and 0.430 chambers. Solution: sent to gunsmith who reamed chambers to 0.432 for $5.00 per hole and the gun then shot ragged one hole groups at 15 yds. with soft unsized 0.431 bullets. Like an idiot I sold it.    Granted, there are sometimes many factors involved in accuracy but in my experiences 99% of the time with SA revolvers it is chambers too large or too small or the wrong diameter bullets. Barrels can easily be turned to fix windage. Just my 2 cents.

[Doc Sunrise]

I placed my order with Gary in early to mid January of 2008.  My FFL called me last week while I was on vacation and said it was coming from USFA.  So, 60 to 65 days.

As far as Colt goes, I was also working on a 3rd gen. New Frontier today that had a broken grip.  I am not even going there today as I do not have enough time to list the areas I found sub-standard and shotty.  I hope your new one, when it shows up of course, shoots better for you. 

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Thanks, Doc.  I am hoping the same!  The Colt I am matching it to shoots like a dream.  3" groups at 25 years, pretty much point of aim (depending on ammo).  Recently picked up as VERY early (1978) 3rd generation Colt that is also a nice shooter.  It seems to be the late 80's to mid/latter 90's Colts that present the most problems.  That is the one thing that I love about USFA.  You can trust your life to one of them right out of the box.

[Beans]

I purchases a NIB Colt 4 3/4 bbl in 45 Colt, 3rd Gen with removable bushing.

It would shoot a 6 inch group at 15 yds on a good day.  

I measured the bore it was .4525, then measured the cylinder throats they were .457 & .458.

I called Colt and was informed that their specs for the cylinder throats for the .45 Colt are .456 to .460. and that I could send the gun back for inspection and if the cylinder throats were within specs they could/would not do anything.

Lets think this over,   Bore Size .4525--cylinder throats .460 UMMMMMMMM!

I  took a chance and sent the Colt back, I received a letter from them stating they are only going replaced the barrel.  I checked the crown Etc before I sent it and notice no problems,  when the gun was returned  I measure the cylinder throats and they now measure  .454-.455.        shipping shrinkage???

I measured the cylinder throats and bores  on my  6 Rodeos and the bore measured .4515-4525, The cylinder throats measured .452.

By the way my Rodeos would shoot  1.5 inch groups max at 15 yds on a BAD DAY.

I have been told that Colt only has this problem on the . 45 Caliber guns

Rodeos @ $550  Colt @$1,300 

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Beans,
You got me curious.  Just measured the chambers on that early 3rd Gen., made in 1978 when the milling machinery being used for the SAA's was still pretty much brand new.  All six came it at .454.  I would think that would be pretty close to the original specs.
CJF

[Fox Creek Kid]

The original Colt specs. as set forth for the military called for 0.450 according to the Kopec book.

[Beans]

On the measurment of the cylinder throats I was using  pin guages

I talked to Colt customer sevrice several times and was told

... that their specs for the cylinder throats for the .45 Colt are .456 to .460.

I repeated the specs a couple of times to confirm what I was thought I heard and they confirmed it.

I just remeasured  the cylinder throats and they now measure  .454-.455.    (4 of them at .454, 2 of them at .455)

I don't have an explanation , just know what I was told and what I have measured.

FYI  Several well known gun writers* have comented on this (Colt and Early S&W 25-2 cylinder throat size) and I beleive that was the reason that the RCBS 45-270 mold was developed.

The  S&W Model 25 Cylinder throat sizes have been discussed on the S&W forum also

* April 2007 Handloader P 12, Dec 2007 Handloader P50, Etc

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

Beans,
Those .454 measurements of mine were at the chamber throats as well.  At the time my gun was made, very early in the 3rd generation run, Colt had turned out no more than 1800 guns on the then new milling machinery that had been set up for the 3rd generation series.  As a result, I am guessing that .454 was as good as it got.
CJF

[Beans]

Wouldn't the cylinder throats get smaller as the boring bit/bar became worn???

If tht is correct, a cylinder throat bored with a new bit/bar would be the largest that was acceptable

[Capt. John Fitzgerald]

You sure would think so!  I, too, Have always wondered about that.  My only guess is that along with the wear comes alignment problems.  Just a guess...