Chain fire in a Henry!

[Henry4440]

From another forum:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=296344

I had the unfortunate experience of a chain fire in the magazine while loading my Uberti made henry rifle in 45 colt...I had just loaded about ten cartridges (yes they were flat nose) when my thumb slipped off the follower which made it slam down on the stack of cartridges...next thing I remember I was standing looking down at a stream of blood flowing from my nose. All ten cartridges exploded in the magazine sending a bunch of brass right into my face, chest and arms. My father and a bunch of my friends from the shooting range rushed over to see what had happened because of the godawful noise this made...next thing ya know I was speeding down the highway on the was to the hospital...I remember Mickey holding a t-shirt to my chest and me holding another rag of some sort to my nose. When I got to the hospital my wife was there, (she was a nurse in the emergency room, and on duty!) and all the people taking care of me I knew personally...Well I lived to tell the tale...but I hope this lesson will save anybody else from the same fate...I can only surmise that I had a high primer on one of the 45 colt cartridges...you can believe I inspect the heck out of the primers now after I reload a bunch on my trusty dillon 550..

[stepnmud]

them high primers can be a problem in revolvers and Henry's, that's another reason for a safety wood dow in the magazine on Henry's. I have caught the follower on the edge of a loading table before and something to pay attention to.Also prime all brass my with a hand primer and can skim my thumb over top of each pc. of primed brass before final loading of powder. Something else to watch for is rifle primers are slightly longer than pistol primers and won't sit as deep in brass cases. Also, I'll have all my primers in a cabinet, but when reloading, I just use the intended primers at my bench and save the primer box till done reloading to double check the empty box for right primers.

[sundance44`s]

 I think the problem can be with rifle primmers being a little longer than pistol primmers ..and then there are primmers that are easyer to light off than others too. Sure glad to hear no serious injury , it sounds bad enough .

[Driftwood Johnson]

Thanks for posting this.

Folks sometimes ask if it is an urban legend about discharges in the magazine of a Henry and it is good to have first hand information. I clicked on your link. Glad the injured party is OK. I have a sneaking suspicion that high primers are not always the culprit with this. I have a sneaky suspicion that just the act of slamming a cartridge really hard may in some way be able to ignite a primer, even if it is properly seated. Think about it for a moment. A high primer beeing slammed against a flat pointed bullet is not the same as a primer being smacked by a firing pin. I have no proof, just a sneaky suspicion that there may be more to this than meets the eye. In any case, utmost care must be observed when loading a Henry.

I have another trick I use, in addition to my spacer stick. When loading my Henry I wrap my entire hand around the magazine up near the top. In case the follower should somehow get loose, it will slam into my hand and stop before it reaches any primers. Yes, it does hurt, I have tested it. Still, a sharp pinch in the hand is better than a discharge in the magazine.

I pay attention to the follower when transporting the rifle, so as not to snag it on anything. I am partiuclarly leery of stages that require stuffing my Henry into a saddle scabbard. Never sure the follower will not snag when I withdraw the rifle. I pay extra attention when pulling it from the scabbard and probably loose some time for my trouble. Don't care. In this case, I am always glad of my spacer sitck, which will limit follower travel to about 1/2" if it snags on something. I always feel that the spring can't accelerate the follower to top speed in 1/2". Never tested that theory though.

P.S.

Mind if I post the link over on the SASS Wire?

P.P.S. I seem to recall that there were even some problems with discharges in the magazine with the early rimfire ammo.

[Henry4440]

P.S.
Mind if I post the link over on the SASS Wire?

Do it DJ.

Here is another story about an Henry rifle accident in 2004 from the NSSA-forum.
http://www.n-ssa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1528

P.S. DJ
I had only once problems with my Henry rifle pulling it from the scabbard.Rode the horse of a friend.The guy on my right side shoot a perc. shotgun at the moment i pulled my Henry from the scabbard.The horse jumped to the left side to my surprise.The next things i saw were alot of horselegs around me.Couldn't sit for a while.

[sundance44`s]

Anyone ever hear of it happening with store bought ammo ?? Every case I`ve heard has been reloads ..or round tip bullets  not flat tip ..I think they were reloads too...don`t remember for sure  on that one.

[Peter M. Eick]

As a new Henry owner I cannot add a lot, but I have seen pebbles and sand picked up on the top of bullet if dropped and they had sticky lube.  I could easily see how a small stone on the front of a dropped cartridge could be the root cause of a slam fire like this.

Has anyone ever tried c-34 primers like we use for the M-14's or M1's?  They are thicker, harder and less sensitive primers.

[Coffinmaker]

A magazine chain fire can occur with any ammo, re-load, factory, doesn't matter.  I'v seen guns from both.  Some sould be repaired and some needed a new barrel/magazine assembly.
Never load a Henry with the barrel other than close to horizontal.  Push ALL the cartridges and hang on tight to the follower. 
Yes, there were also documented magazine discharges with the original rim fire ammo, but much less frequently than with central fire ammunition.

Coffinmaker

[Will Ketchum]

As a new Henry owner I cannot add a lot, but I have seen pebbles and sand picked up on the top of bullet if dropped and they had sticky lube.  I could easily see how a small stone on the front of a dropped cartridge could be the root cause of a slam fire like this.

Has anyone ever tried c-34 primers like we use for the M-14's or M1's?  They are thicker, harder and less sensitive primers.

I use the CCI Large Pistol primers, they are suppose to be a bit harder and according to Richard Lee, are less sensitive.  I also hand prime as I stated in another thread.   Also as Driftwood does I position my hand high on the magazine and if the follower gets a way it hits my hand. I then ease the follower down on the rounds.

Will Ketchum

[sundance44`s]

I use a Lee Auto Prime hand primmer ...if the primmers don`t seat all the way flush , the case won`t come out of the holder seat ..I`ve had a few I didn`t clean the primmer pocket on and the primmer stop short of seating all the way in  ..and the case  not come out of the holder ..I`ve since bought one of the electric primmer pocket cleaner ..and use it , even on target loads .
I remember as a kid dropping 22 ammo down the top of a tube feed rifle  ...never even gave it a thought . Older and much wiser now .

[Driftwood Johnson]

sundance44`s

I would not worry about dropping 22 rimfire ammo straight down the tubular magazine of a rifle. 22 ammo is much lighter than 44 or 45 caliber ammo. The rounds will be slowed down by friction in the tube much more than the heavier 44 or 45 cal ammo. More important, since the rounds weigh less, they will not strike each other with anywhere near the same amount of force as heavier 44 or 45 caliber ammo. And lastly, they are rimfire, the bullets are not striking the priming area.

I still drop 22s straight down the tube into my Marlin 39a all the time.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I once had a high primer cause an AD in a Glock 23 40 S&W.  Slide locked open, placed a magazine in, and released the slide catch. BANG, right through the work bench in the garage.  Recovered the case, no indent on the primer.  Had to have beeen a high primer.

[sundance44`s]

I been thinking ..I know thats dangerous ..just couldn`t help myself ..anyway what came to mind was IF there was a flat faced hollow point lead bullet ...that would cure the problem ..guess I could make some with my drill press ..But ..too much trouble .

[stepnmud]

Seems like the newer Uberti Henry's have sort of a of rubber bumper on the magazine follower,that contacts the last cartridge inserted in the magazine and mine does but looks like it's worn down. Had thought about replacing my 1/2" wood dow safety stick with a "Big Chief"  grade school pencil that has a big eraser on the top. Johnny Carson use to flip them pencils around that had eraser on both ends and maybe sumpthing to tryout.

[Grizzly Adams]

Thank God you weren't hurt more seriously.

Any chance you can post pics of your rifle?  It might be instructive to know just how, and in what direction these things take when they come apart.

[Henry4440]

Thank God you weren't hurt more seriously.

Any chance you can post pics of your rifle?  It might be instructive to know just how, and in what direction these things take when they come apart.

I didn't had the accident.Thank God.

[Grizzly Adams]

I didn't had the accident.Thank God.

Ha!

[Arcey]

Maybe I shouldn't chime in here not being a '60 owner myself. But I've been reading along.

Some time ago someone did an experiment using soft, RNFP bullets loaded over compressed baby powder in normally and properly seated primers. Letting the follower slam, he managed to set off a primer.

After examination he concluded a bullet nose had deformed sufficiently to push its way into the primer ahead of it to set it off. 

Thought I'd put it out and maybe it'd jog another old-timer's memory with a greater recall for detail than me.

[major]

To all
I have been following this thread and I just thought I would chime in.  Loading the Henry left handed is an accident waiting to happen.  The reason I say this is because in the N-SSA we had it happen to someone loading left handed.  The top portion of the barrel that swivels go to the left and if you hold the gun in your right hand and load with your left.  When you bring your hand up to add more cartridges to the magazine you stand a good chance of hitting that part of the barrel that is turned to the left and lining it up with the loading tube.  When it lines up the fowler is forced down by the spring onto the cartridges that are in the tube and it can cause one or more to go off.  I don't know if this person was loading left handed or not but I strongly suggest that if you shoot left handed you learn to load right handed.  Then move the gun to the left to shoot.  Just my 2 cents.
Terry

[Trailrider]

Pards,

DO NOT EVER use Large Rifle Primers in .45 LC, .44-40, .38-40, .44 Russian/Colt (Modern)/Special/Magnum, or ANY OTHER PISTOL OR DUAL SERVICE (rifle & pistol) cartridge!  The primer pocket of these cartridge can be up to .009" SHORTER THAN LARGE RIFLE PRIMERS, or the Large Rifle Primers are .009" LONGER than Large Pistol!

Always run your thumb across the head of the primed case.  The primer MUST be flush OR BELOW the surface of the head, and below is better!  If in doubt, use a primer depth gage, but the primer should indicate LOW on most of the gages I've tried.  I've never had a problem with failure to ignite with any UNmodified rifle or revolver!

The advise about keeping the Henry (M1860...not the new company using that name) approximately horizontal while loading, AND wrapping your hand completely around the magazine tube opening and further toward the muzzle than the stack of the cartridges will be, is the BEST way to do it!

Ride careful, Pards!