Sawed off, no chokes, hall sweeper. How to tighten pattern?

[Dick Dastardly]

There's akchewal learnin' goin' on here.  I'm goin' to milk this thread for my next Big Lube™ newsletter.  I can't be the only one that's been confronted with what otherwise was a fine shotgun that got SASSified till it couldn't shoot for poop.  I've gotten several great ideas here and I'm sure there are more.

FWIW, even though I've reloaded for well over 40 years, I continue to learn.  Learnin' keeps me young.  Never stop learnin'.

DD-DLoS

P.S. Know it all types are already dead.  They just haven't tipped over yet.

[Wills Point Pete]

 I think the way to keep the plastic from fouling the bore too bad is simply to use a 1/8 inch overpowder card wad and then put the one piece plastic wad on top of that. This also gives me much better compression of the powder, too. I come home and take the barrels off my double, squirt a bunch of Windex with vinegar down the tubes and clean one revolver. I push a half a paper towel through each tube, a buncha black crap comes out. I squirt some more windex down each barrel and clean the other revolver. I repeat the paper towel routine, they come out with a little gray. I run a bore mop soaked with moose milk through the bores, wipe the gun down with moose milk and in summer sit it on the porch in the sun to dry. During our winterwhen it is down to forty degrees or so, I put the metal pieces on the oven door.

Now if you really want to tighten that pattern take a little scotch tape and wrap a Winchester Red Wad with a couple turns. Well, the Claybuster version since Winchester quit making them.

[Springfield Slim]

I've shot BP shotshells with plastic wads in 7 different shotguns, from a '97, an '87, a couple of LC's and few Crescents, hammered and hammerless. The best way to get it out in one piece is to fill the barrels with hot soapy water, hold it in there for a minute or so, and then shove it out with a spiral Tornado brush. It seems to get easier with more use, kinda seasons the barrels or something. NEVER use a regular brush, just tears up the plastic and makes it harder to get out.  Never tried windex, water is free, and wet paper towels are messy.

[Dick Dastardly]

Last time this gun got gummed up with plastic I used an electric drill motor and a bronze brush on a cleaning rod to get it out.  Since then, it's only had Circle Fly wads in my BP SASS ammo.  That way the gun cleans up pronto with a spritz of Moosemilk and a pull of the boresnake.

The reason I'm even thinkn' of using plastic is to try to snug up the pattern.  I'm also going to look into the kraft paper idea.  I'm thinkn' that Penny coin wraps might be just the ticket.  Probably get two sleeves per wrap, maybe Three?

Keep 'em coming.  This is starting to look more and more like a newsletter article.

DD-DLoS

[Noz]

Maybe it's the difference in shotguns. I shoot a 20 ga Remington Spartan by Baikal. My loads are Pyrodex or SKIRMISH under a Circle Fly 18 ga nitro card, 18 ga 1/2' fiber cushion wad with a shot cup cut from a AA wad filled with reclaimed shot. I top that with a 17ga over shot wad and glue it down with DUCO. All this is stuffed into a Magtech shell with CCI Large Pistol primers. My load is 4cc of powder and 4.3cc of shot.
The bores are chromed and again I say run some cold water in the tubes and push a wet paper towel through and the bores are clean. What little snot is in evidence come out in strings.

I put a squirt of moosemilk on a boresnake and pull it through once to leave some Ballistol in the barrels. But the boresnake comes out clean.

I can't for the life of me see where this ease of cleaning is something that someone would think I would lie about. Where's the gain?

DD, I too am going to try the paper cups. Not because of ease of cleaning but just to eliminate the plastic(dare I say non period correct plastic) from the mix. I also found a quart of waterglass that will be sealing my next loads.

[Cuts Crooked]

Maybe it's the difference in shotguns.
I can't for the life of me see where this ease of cleaning is something that someone would think I would lie about. Where's the gain?

I for one don't think you would NozzleRag! I think you are right, it's the difference in guns! Yours has a chrome bore and is probably as smooth as glass. But someone else's gun may have micro pits, or perhaps just wasn't as smooth from the factory, giving plastic a surface it can really grab
on too! Donno...but I know that what werks fer one pard may not werk fer another, in ALL aspects of the Darkside! Finding out wat werks fer YOU is half the fun!

[Arcey]

Noz, lemme try ta set it straight.

I wasn't aimin' at one person in particular 'n ya know I will if I feel the want. Never stood with you while you cleaned yours.

If you took anything I wrote as callin' ya, specifically, a liar that wasn't the intent.

[Sunwapta Haze]

DD et al -

I have an old (and I mean old - circa 1883) mule ear double that probably didn't have much for chokes at any rate (though it must have had something as the barrel is stamped "not for ball") and it had been shortened by about 2 inches before I got it removing any constriction that might have existed.  Long story short - it threw wide patterns with huge holes. 

There are 3 or 4 things you can try to tighten the pattern:

• 1. throw 1/3 more shot than powder
• 2. use a larger shot size
• 3. 1 and 2 combined
• 4. use a shot cup

I tried all of the above and settled on #3 as being the best for me and my shotgun.  This didn't give me the tightest pattern but it sure 'nough did tighten the pattern to where it was match friendly and didn't require any extra steps in the reloading process. The shot cups did give the tightest pattern but were a pain to make (I used home rolled paper cups) and in a couple of cases they didn't open up and I had virtual slugs.  Somewhere on this board is a sample of paper cups made by folding pre-cut forms into cups and they looked like they would work real well.

Bottom line - you'll need to do some 'sperimentin' to see what your gun likes. 

[Delmonico]

Dick, if your coin rolls don't do enough, consider adding bedding.  19th century, they used bone meal, but I wouldn't tell if you cheated and used the modern stuff.  The coin roll cups should keep the plastic sawdust off the bores.  That suff can do wondders for patterns.

[Dick Dastardly]

I've got some Ballistic Products shot buffer.  I do use that stuff in my killer duck and pheasant loads.  Just for fun, here's the recipe for one of the best loads ever for killing stuff with a 12 ga shotgun.

AA hull (old style) once fired - I've got bushels of 'em.
Any good magnum 209 primer.
33.5 grains of SR4756.
Win red wad.
1-1/4 oz nickel plated shot (I like 5s a lot)
44 Mag hull full of BP buffer shaken in.
Circle Fly overshot card.
Roll crimp.

That same buffer could be just the ticket for that dang hall sweeper.  I'll be playing with the powder charge too.  Lots of good stuff turning up here.  Keep 'em coming.

DD-DLoS

[Delmonico]

I know the load well from when I hunted with a 12.  Never used the nickel shot in it, just copper plated, but it works well. 

Give me a good handling 12 double that is light enough for me to like and a IC and modifies choke and you will have all you ever need for Chinese Chickens, of course add a good Lab, I prefer black myself. 

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho Del,

You mean like this one?

His name is Bear.

DD-DLoS

[Delmonico]

Yep they're great, my pup is gonna be another good one, Rita named him Rowdy and he lives up to his name.  But he's so happy when he's in the field.

[Dick Dastardly]

A good dog deserves a good master.

DD-DLoS