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[Long Johns Wolf]

Bad news, friends of the Centaure: my letter to the Fabriques d'Armes Unies de Liége came back yesterday "address unknown". Likewise my various posts in German speaking BP and collector forums got me a lot of response but no additional hard facts. So, that approach seems to be a deadend.
At this point in time published information available on Centaure revolvers is known from the chapter "The Rage Over Replicas" from W. Edwards' book CIVIL WAR GUNS (English), the German language DWJ articles from 1971 of E. Modrau & H. S. v. Stavenhagen CENTAURE COLT - EINE REPLIKA, DIE KEINE IST (Centaure Colt - a replica that is not a replica), and from 1973 from H. J. Stammel CENTAURE NEW MODEL 1960 ARMY
If we really want to learn more about serial numbers/production dates etc. there seems to be no easy way left but only the long and windy road of collecting data in a standardized manner, of specs and markings of your pistols, and linking that to import and/or proof testing information. As Drjl pointed out elsewhere even numbering might be different between pistols sold in the US and Europe, as US ones seem to have prefixes to S/N's on the rarer variations which do not seem to be on the same ones sold in Europe...
Bootsie

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I have a copy of Edward's Book on the way. It should be here today or tomorrow, but at "book Rate" who knows when the USPS will decide to deliver it.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Marks on our Centaure Colts - I'd like to share this info from 2 German language books with you.
G. Wirnsberger: Beschußzeichen (Proof Marks) 1975
J. Gargela, Z. Faktor, I. Kafka: Zeichen auf Handfeuerwaffen (Marks on Hand Firearms) 1985.
For orientiation see attached blow-up relevant area on the left side, from my pistol S/N 4079
E L. G over * in oval (on cylinder): proof mark Liege Proof House, 1983 to today, final test BP normal loads
Crown over R: mark for rifled barrel, Liege, 1894 - 1968. This one is on my pistol S/N 4079 but not on my other one S/N 12307 and my friend's 140xx. Therefore assume that S/N 4079 was produced before 1968 but the other 2 after that date.
"Arrow": inspection mark of Liege Proof House. Correct name is "Perron". Acceptance mark on rifled guns
* over S, or other capitals: probably inspector marks, Liege
Centaur: manufacturer's mark Fabrique d'Armes Unies de Liège
Bootsie

[W.T.]

Number 2024 has the identical marks, although the "crown over R" is not so clearly struck.

The disappearence of Fabriques d'Armes Unies de Liége leads me to wonder what became of the importer (whose sparse address, "Chicago U.S.A.", is on the barrel line).  Is anything known of this company?

[Long Johns Wolf]

W.T.: The US importer/distributor of early Centaure pistols like yours was presumingly Centennial Arms Corp. of Chicago. There is some additional information in chapter 35 of the Edwards book. Some 40 % is in line with what we know (from the German articles), another 40 % is excitingly new and deals with variations and US numbering, etc. as per Dr. Davis's post, but 20 % are somewhat in conflict to what was written in 1971 and 1973 in Germany. Further research is needed for clarification. If Centennial Arms or someone in the know is still around and one of you pards cares to provide a mail or email address I volonteer to communicate with them.
It is interesting that you are bringing up this important subject of importers today because I just wrote to their 1960/70s German importer/distributor (which happens to be still around) for answers. X fingers.
Bootsie

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

The Pistol (S/N 2999) I got from Rifle has the same markings as your's and WT's with the exception that there is a * over D on the frame and bbl. The Cylinder sports the Oval Liege mark with the * over S before it.
The other one (S/N 18408) is a later gun and just has the sideways diamond lollipop Stamp on the bbl and the frame in the same places as the early gun but no other Proof marks, the cylinder has the Oval Leige Proof Mark.

Of the two the early gun is of better quality, form , fit and function, than the later gun.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Halfway Creek Charlie: so it appears that 2 inspectors were looking at the early gun and that it is produced before 1968, whereas the higher S/N is from after that date. We are accumulating more information.
Bootsie

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I shot my two Centennial 1860 Army's at our local CAS match today and am quite pleased with them. 5 stages and nary a bobble. No binding and no slowdown and not even a cap jam. They appear to be shooting where  I point them. I don't know for sure as I haven't fired them before today's match. I did have some misses with them, but I think I held them too low as that's where the bullets went. the hits were solid in in the center of the disc's. I need to go to the range and just shoot them to see where they group for a better idea, but I am pleased with the way they performed.

I shot my Henry today and I hit everything I pointed it at, even the two bonus 65 yd targets. It is very smooth and I don't have to drop it from my shooting position to lever it. Just flick, flick, bang! It stayed on the target great.

My original Model 1889 Remy Coach Gun did great too.

All in all a great Match.

[Long Johns Wolf]

Thought I knew it all but W.T. inspired my ... most major parts are numbered. Serial number placement on the Centaures:
Barrel: under breech end
Frame: under front end
Cylinder: facing breech, 3 or 4 digits
Hammer: lower left side
Grip: "blind" mark under backstrap, last 2 digits
Backstrap: on the left side of base part (coverd by grip)
Bootsie

[Long Johns Wolf]

Marks on our Centaure Colts - I'd like to share this info from 2 German language books with you.
G. Wirnsberger: Beschußzeichen (Proof Marks) 1975
J. Gargela, Z. Faktor, I. Kafka: Zeichen auf Handfeuerwaffen (Marks on Hand Firearms) 1985.
For orientiation see attached blow-up relevant area on the left side, from my pistol S/N 4079
E L. G over * in oval (on cylinder): proof mark Liege Proof House, 1883 to today, final test BP normal loads
Crown over R: mark for rifled barrel, Liege, 1894 - 1968. This one is on my pistol S/N 4079 but not on my other one S/N 12307 and my friend's 140xx. Therefore assume that S/N 4079 was produced before 1968 but the other 2 after that date.
"Arrow": inspection mark of Liege Proof House. Correct name is "Perron". Acceptance mark on rifled guns
* over S, or other capitals: probably inspector marks, Liege
Centaur: manufacturer's mark Fabrique d'Armes Unies de Liège
Bootsie

[sic semper tyrannis]

I just found this thread, and I hope y'all can help me with some questions about my Belgian Colt.

I have an "1960 New Model Army" with no "Centennial" or "Chicago" markings, it has a rebated plain cylinder (no engraving or fluting), and has the shoulder stock cuts. I have the wooden case and the L-shaped tool, I assume both to be original.

I have fired exactly one cap through it, and as far as I can tell, that is all it has been fired. It is in truly impeccable condition. I would say just shy of "mint". The case shows some wear, probably "good" to "very good" condition.

Serial number: 128 - No letter prefix. All the serial numbered parts match.

Here's my dilemma. I'd love to shoot it - that's what it's made for! But, judging by the condition and the low serial number, I assume it might actually be worth something. I don't want to kill its value by blasting away with it.

Does anyone have any idea what this might be worth? I've looked around but haven't been able to get a good feel for its value.

I appreciate any help on this. I'll get some pics posted as soon as I can.
Thanks!

[Long Johns Wolf]

Welcome to this forum SST. From your description you have a very early Belgian Colt aka Centaure (as we Europeans call them) aka centennial Colt (as some of my US pards name them) in top condition. As you may know I do a research project on these Belgian Colts and would like to include your pistol in my survey. Please, send me a PM with your email address and I will email the questionaire of the project to document the specifics of your pistol and will also provide additional info regarding models and variations of the 1960NMA as known today.
The lowest S/N in my survey is 38, the next known to me is 767. Therefore, your pistol was probably manufactured in one of the first production runs 1960 and might be one of those that W. Edwards wrote about in his book from 1962. Barrel marking ot the early pistols is just "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY". On the left side of the barrel yours is probably marked CAL. 44, there should be the famous Liege "Perron" (arrow), inspector mark like "* over C", proof mark "crown over R" of the Liege Proof House. On the cylinder should be the proof mark "ELG in oval" and again the inspector mark. On the left side of the frame forward is the "rampant centaur" (logo of Fabriques d'Armes Unies de Liège), another Perron and an additional inspector mark. MADE IN BELGIUM underneath the back strap. S/Ns are underneath the barrel, underneath the frame, on the forward end of the trigger guard, on the breechside of the cylinder, on the left lower end of the hammer, on the wooden grip (covered by the back strap), on the lower left side of the back strap (covered by the grip).
I fully understand your dilemma regarding shooting vs collecting. If your pistol is indeed in mint condition and came with the original carton and papers it would probably bring between € 600,00 and 800,00 over here, possibly up to € 1.000,00 which equals $ 840.00 to 1,120.00 and 1,400.00 respectively. Prices in the US are still a bit lower but are bound to rise.
Long Johns Wolf

[sic semper tyrannis]

PM sent.

Thanks for the insight - what you described is mine exactly.
I'm thinking I should get a "shooter" and leave this one as-is.

[Long Johns Wolf]

To keep the Belgian Colt enthusiasts informed: an interesting new variation has been found and is now included in the survey. At first glance the pistol looks like a regular 8" barrel, 3-screw frame model in the usual blue/CCH finish but...the cylinder is of the fluted variety! S/N is 117xx, confirmed 1972 production. Barrel marking is CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK    "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY"
All other fluted versions known either have the high gloss polish/"in the whith finish" (5,5" & 8" barrel, 3-screw frame) or the 7,5" barrel with 4-screw frame in blue/CCH with matching shoulder stock.
Keep on asking for questionaires if you own a Belgian Colt aka Centaure aka Centennial Colt to have it included in my survey!
Long Johns Wolf

[exreciever]

Hello, I am new to this site and enjoyed reading all the input .I have 2 Centennial  "1960 New Model Army" pistols. They are numberd consecutively.I would appreciate if any one can help me with more information about them. I will attach some pictures to help.
Thanks

[Long Johns Wolf]

Hello Exreciever, this it the right place for this question.
You find further info on these rare Belgian Colts under www.1960NMA.org
From your pics it appears you have 2 regular New Model Armies of the Colt-type naval engagement scene variety. According to the visible marks they were probably produced somewhere between 1968 and 1975.
To be able to provide more information send an email please to wolf@1960NMA.org and I'll mail a questionaire to further assess your 2 pistols. Or download that questionaire from the website, complete one for each pistol and mail it to me. I will then come back with additional information.
Enjoy the forum and thanks for your interest in the Centaure aka Belgian Colt aka Centennial Army aka "1960 NEW MODEL ARMY"
Long Johns Wolf