Uberti Remington 1890...

[Cal Fornia]

Hi, Everyone...

I just picked up a barely used Uberti Remington 1890 (in .45 Colt) on the 27th, after its ten day wait.  A very long ten days!  Unfortunately, the weather didn't cooperate with me this weekend, so I haven't yet had a chance to shoot it.  However, on Saturday, I tried to practice loading, since this is my first single-action.  Tried to do the load one, skip one, load four... only I didn't get that far, before the cylinder wouldn't turn (most likely why the previous owner sold it to the shop).  Had to pull the cylinder a couple times, trying to figure out what was up, but I finally found out the problem.  Can't say I was too impressed by Uberti's "attention" to detail, but I not only found a serious burr on the edge of the hand's window, I also found the firing pin hole had a generous bulge of flash... so, with what tools I could find (couldn't find my needle files), I took down both faults, bit by bit, till the loaded-with-five cylinder made it all the way around.  The recoil shield now has some minor scratch marks from the only file I could find, and has lost a bit of finish, due to the fine-grit paper I used to smooth away the "toolmarks", but I am now happy to know my gun can now be fired, once I get a chance to visit the range in dry weather.

Anybody else have such problems?  I'd also appreciate any experiences and/or info on the Uberti Remington 1890.  I'd always thought my first sixgun would be a Ruger Vaquero, but... being someone who likes doing his own thing... I really wanted something not so common.  Too bad the Schofield's were out of my price range, but I have had a fondness for Remingtons, going back to the 1858 cap and ball.  I've always liked the 1875's, and yet only recently (within the last year) became aware of the 1890's.  Had this been an 1875, rather than an 1890, I would have still bought it... Remingtons have a look and feel all their own!  Also, I'm seriously thinking of sending my 1890 off to Bob Munden, for his Option #1 tune.  Anybody have any work done by him?

Thanks for any and all replies........


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[Flint]

The burr around the firing pin hole was probably caused by the previous owner dry firing the revolver...

[Fox Creek Kid]

This burring can also caused by the soft metal on the breech face flowing from the primers hitting it. That's why modern guns have recoil plates mounted there.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Cal, since the Uberti 75s are essentially the same (breech-wise) as the 90s, I'll chime in here.  Both of your "challenges" are pretty normal.  Since you de-burred the immediate problems, you have a handle on what's happening.  I had 2 75s until recently, and still have one.  The peening around the firing pin hole IS caused by soft metal as FCK says, and by Flint's suggestion, re: the previous owner dry firing WITHOUT a proper snap cap in the chambers.  I prefer A-Zooms, but the various ones by Pachmeyer and others work well, too.  A VERY good gunsmith could remedy PART of the problem, which is slight mis-alignment, but the file/sandpaper method you already used will keep it to a minimum problem. 

On BOTH of my 75s, the headspace was VERY minimal and some cases will cause drag due to rim thickness.  My recoil shields are scratched as well.  I've had pretty good luck with Winchester cases (I have 2,000+) and few case problems.  My 75 (actually, BOTH) is (were) some of the MOST accurate pistols I've ever owned, and I attribute this to minimum, rather than maximum tolerances. That seems to be common on these Uberti-Remington clones.  I'll wager the 90s are the same.

Have fun on your first day firing!  If you plan to shoot the gun with smokeyless loads, you should have few problems.  If you plan to shoot BP, well, you'll have fun, too - but you'll probably have some more challenges to overcome.  Remember this if you DO use BP:  the secret to Remington/BP success is bullet lube   and LOTS of it!

[Cal Fornia]

Thanks for the replies, y'all!

Flint and Fox Creek Kid, it's possible both your thoughts are part of the problem, but I noted this factory-looking "punchmark" near the firing-pin hole, and figured it was the factory's way of dealing with excess flash... whack it with a "special tool", so they don't have to properly machine it.  Keeps the gun cheap, I suppose, but not an impressive effort.  Oh, well... I just hope USFA does better, when they bring out their clones.  I'd really like another 1890, in .357 mag/.38 Special, just for something cheaper to shoot.  Still, your inputs... like Mr. Bailey said... both work.

Steel Horse Bailey, thanks much for your reply.  I'm just glad I had more attentiveness and skill than the previous owner.  Some time ago, I made a trade deal with my fave dealer, and one of the guns I took home was a J. C. Higgins Model 20, in 12ga... my first shotgun, smooth and slick as warm butter.  However, I discovered the J. C. Higgins Model 20 never came with a 20" barrel, and a closer exam showed the "work" of a former owner was off.  So, I bought the tools, and squared up the muzzle right and proper.  Could've fiddled with it more, given my perfectionistic bent, but it was already shortened a bit close to the bead, and I didn't want to spend another hour or two on it, even though it was fun and interesting work (oiled cotton stuffed down the barrel kept the filings out of the action).

I do hope the 90's are the same.  I'm also hoping my example shoots to point of aim for me, and does so with accuracy.  One of the other guns I traded for was a 1954-made S&W Highway Patrolman (Pre-28), .357 with a 4" barrel.  Fine gun, shoots cloverleaf groups, however... it has this strange problem.  It fires 3-4 rounds into a nice, tight cloverleaf, to point of aim.  But the other 2-3 (need to recheck my target, to confirm the exact split) rounds drop low and to the right, into another nice group.  Bob Munden, when I talked with him, said it was probably me, not the gun at fault.  Could be the ammo, as well, since I've only ever shot .38 wadcutters out of it, so far (bought four boxes of the stuff, cheap).  Whatever the cause of the problem, I'd really like to fix it, since I love my HP, and its wear-patterns indicate possible police-use in its history.  Yes, that's what attracted me... the aroma of history that gun exuded, when I first saw it on the shelf.  Well... headspace does look minimal on my '90.  Cartridges don't rattle in it, as much as they seem to in my HP (though in the HP's case, what there is, is very slight).  I'm glad to hear tight tolerances look to be common on Uberti clones.  I've heard .45 Colt has problems with proper chamber/throat dimensions, in relation to the bore.  It would be nice to have all my shots neatly clustered at 25 yards, right on the bullseye, even if they aren't quite touching.

Yes, I plan to pretty much stick with smokeless, and bought a box of standard 250 grain Black Hills loads, for my first try-out.  BP does sound like fun, though.  Really, what I'd like to do is look into gettin' hold of an 1858 conversion, in .38 Special... and perhaps another, in .45 Colt (both, if funds ever allow)... and look into using BP in those, for historical veracity.  Though CAS looks fun, my health and present finances preclude my getting involved.  So, my main thing is having fun, and knowing I have a weapon not only well-suited for my personal defense, but quite usable as a hunting arm, for that equally rare possibility I may one day have the opportunity to go hunting more than small-game (which, at present, has been limited to slugs and snails in my tiny back yard... still wish I lived on my uncle's ten acres, but that time's been long gone).  I'll do my best to remember lots of bullet lube with the BP, so thanks for the warning!

By the way, my 1890's serial number is 145XXX, with the year-code BI (or B1...?) on the frame, next to the proofmarks.  Any idea when mine was made?  Thanks, to All....


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[Oldelm]

Cal Fornia......welcome to the fire and congrats on yer new '90,.....it  was made in 1997.

Here's the reference site for you....

http://www.berettaweb.com/DL1.htm

Happy Shootin   

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Well, Cal -

Sorry to hear that you won't be doing the CAS thing ... yet  - but if fun is what ya want, then you'll have it in spades!  That's what this is all about!

It seems to be pretty well agreed that because of age, the specs for dimensions of 45 Colts can vary more than more modern rounds.  In my limited experience, the biggest challenge regarding throat vs. chamber vs. bore dimensions is worse in 44 WCF/44-40.  45 Colt dimensions tend to be "generous" and causes some challenges - 'specially when using BP.  But that's not gonna be your problem, apparently. 

Good luck with your HP, too!  Don't ya wish these older "toys" could talk? 

[Cal Fornia]

Oldelm, thanks much for the link... and, wow, wouldn't have figured my 1890 was that old, but my Savage 1907 (made late in 1909) doesn't look like it's pushing a hundred years, either, despite it's imperfect, original finish.  So, does this mean my gun came before or after Beretta?  I've also been aware, through info here and elsewhere, that early Uberti's had quality problems, and that "improvements" were made... in other words, other than the hand, is the steel Uberti used good?  Of course, it's probably better than the steel used for original Remington 1890's(cringes a bit, just in case), but it would be nice to know the gun won't look like a well-used bar of soap (or collapse into bits/cough up all its chunks) within the next few years...      Oh, and speaking of strength, I'm curious to know how well my gun will handle heavy loads, durability-wise.  Thanks....

Steel Horse Bailey... yeah, life sometimes bites big, but several years of rampant unemployment and low pay (not that I'm getting paid much, now) has a habit of messing with a man's financial stability.*  I'm lucky I still have a decent "horse" to get me back and forth to work.  As for ammo variables, what's the point of having SAMMI specs, if'n the gunmakers can't decide on a common ground?

Sure wish my guns could talk, though I had a six-inch S&W Pre-Victory M&P (in .38 S&W) that had a re-import stamp on it, care of the Sacramento Armory, where it had been received back sometime in the 70's or 80's.  What its life had been, during its stay overseas, I have no idea... wish I did.  Well, haven't shot my HP enough to know if its "dual group" habit is endemic or not.  Could be me, could be ammo, though my M&P shot fine during the same, initial session.  Which is what leads me to believe I may have a few chambers out of line with the bore, or perhaps some other mystery reason.  Won't know until I get it out with some 158gr Mags, in place of the .38 Special wadcutters I've been using... perhaps giving it a more thorough cleaning (still had some crudmarks I couldn't get out of the chambers with the stuff I had) will help turn the tide.  Anyhow, thanks to you, too... talk with you later!


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*If'n yer wonderin'... mah 1890 twas bought with unexpected funds dropped inta mah lap by a class-action lawsuit some real nice fella/filly a'happened ta bring up, accordin' to the nice and legal letta' I received in tha post... what was left afta went fer bills an' stuff.
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[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, again!

Cal, the Italian steel IS much better than the originals, but isn't up to the standards of say, S&W, Colt, Ruger, H&K, Glock, SIG or, well, you get the picture.  But it is generally PERFECTLY adequate for the lower pressure rounds from the "olde" days.

1997 was BB - before Beretta.  I don't know when the takeover happened, but I heard about it maybe 3-4 years ago, and I think it was a done deal then - so 2002-2003 may have been the actual timeframe for the Uberti-Beretta merger - with Benelli thrown in the mix, too. 

I haven't heard about quality issues regarding the Remingtons made by Uberti.  Matter of fact, generally, the Ubertis seem to be pretty average or better ... quality wise.  Most people's problems are centered on the things they (mfgr) have to do to keep the prices down - ie: little, if any hand finishing.  A lot of us feel that for the price paid, these guns SHOULD come "across the water" with fewer issues, but we have to remember that thanks to the FED devaluing the dollar vs. Euro (for trade's sake  ) as well as import fees/taxes etc. the guns pretty much double their cost.  "Thank you, bureaucracy"!

IF you mean factory spec. loads when you say "heavy loads" you should be OK for a long time.  Just don't push 'em ... they won't handle it.  Generally, the "cowboy" tailored rounds are actually a bit softer than full-spec rounds and will do fine.  Cor-Bon makes some hunting rounds (for Rugers, TC, North American etc) that should be avoided like the plague in these guns!  Stick to rounds that have a factory O.A.L. of 1.600" or a bit less less, (SAAMI spec) because the Rems have notoriously short cylinders.  Speaking of SAAMI, the variances happened "back in the day" mostly.  Nowadays, the makers use the specs, but some tend to go to the "max" side, where others stay nearer the "min" side - that seems to be the main issue.  Because of age, the min/max figures are farther apart than, say - 44 Mag, which was born WAY into the modern era and the corresponding precision manufacturing standards possible. 

It is possible to get a gunsmith to cut and insert a hardened bushing that would fix the firing pin peening issue, but I bet that'd be pretty pricey.  Mine were bought used, so they had ?? rounds 'thru them, and I've shot thousands of rounds since, with exactly 1 broken part (which was part of the "safety" import parts, so it hampered NOTHING in the way of working function) and I've had to spend perhaps 5 minutes with a stone/file and crocus cloth - TOTAL - to take care of the firing pin hole.  If yours is like mine, you'll be passing that gun on to your kids/grandkids, I predict.

Uhhhh ... NO, I don't work for Uberti/Beretta - I just have had Uberti guns going back to 1975 with nothing worse than normal parts issues. 

Have fun, pard.  It's good to hear from ya!

[Cal Fornia]

Howdy, right back!

I had a feeling 1997 was BB... I hadn't even been aware of Beretta purchasing Uberti till I started digging for info on my 1890, and, back in 1997, I was more up on such things, and never heard of it happening.  Last few years, what with everything up and down in my life, I'd fallen out of touch with a good many of my interests.  I also figured Italian steel wouldn't meet up with the likes of the brands you mentioned, from everything I've heard, but I'm glad to know it's better-than-original.

It is a shame about all that bureaucratic interference and Fed devaluation of American interests, but it's still a bigger shame that it forces lesser quality goods on the public, sometimes to the detriment of our safety and/or "customer satisfaction".  Though my example of Uberti "workmanship" isn't perfect, so long as it's durable and gives me the service I want from it... accurately, and with dependability I can count on (with reasonable maintenance)... I should be satisfied.  Just handling this gun, it feels solid and strong.  And suitably hefty.  I like that feel with my Smith HP, and I like it with my Remington.  In comparison, the Colt clones feel... a bit toyish.  Not that they are, but I think you get my point.  I'm not fond of plastic in my firearms, either.  Sometimes, lightness sacrifices that sense of seriousness... until the trigger is pulled.  I'd rather have a heavier arm that helps in the recoil, than one trimed to be "easy" to carry.  But I ramble, and you are correct...

... it would be nice if these guns came with more attention to detail, in the areas where function counts.  I'm not one for fancy finishes, especially if they mean poor-fit internals.  I used to own a CZ-85, with the black "enamel" finish.  Still paid over five-hundred dollars for it (total, OTD), back when the originals first became available in the US, but the gun came smooth and flawless in function, straight from the factory.  Oh, well, if tax-time is good to me, I'll be sending my 1890 off to Bob Munden, for a tune-up.  He should be able to take care of the important bits, so my gun functions smooth and flawless, like it should.  Hmmm... I wonder if anyone has fitted a Bisley-style hammer to a Remington.........?

Yes, I mean factory-spec.  A fifty-round box of Black Hills 250 gr. RNFP... couldn't find anything on the box saying it was "Ruger-only", so it should do well.  I'm not much interested in the softer Cowboy Action loads, though I may end up trying some, just to see if my particular gun shoots them well, if the heavier/standard stuff proves unsatisfactory, accuracy-wise.  With these Black Hill loads, there is still plenty of space left in the cylinder for a slightly heavier bullet.  As for the peening issue, I don't intend to dry fire this piece without some form of snap-cap, due to the softer steel.  With my CZ-85, I had a "bad" experience with snap-caps... a couple hits from my CZ destroyed them!  That was one strong gun.

A good pistolsmith, a very large wad of cash, and anything could happen.  I find myself thinking, if I really like this gun... or, maybe, if USFA ever gets their version (1875 and/or 1890) out-to-market, and it proves excellent (and "affordable")... I'd really like to pick up a gun and make something special, something customized to my specs, with mayhaps a bit of wire-inlay work, rather than engraving, and a brass medallion set in the grips, with my own little "branding" mark etched on it, rather than my initials.  Oh, and a special finish... I know of a place that can treat a gun with boron carbide, resulting in a soft chalk-gray coloration.  And a surface hardness of 90+ on the Rockwell scale.  With my Uberti, that should take care of the "soft steel" issue!  Then, all I would need is some custom-shaped and fitted dymondwood grips.  And a holster rig.  And a proper outfit to wear.  And a good pair of properly fitting boots.  Already have a few hats to choose from, so I'm covered in that respect (unless I see something else I like).  Add a tricked out Lightning carbine/rifle, and a tweaked 1887/1897, and a match for the above revo, and...?

Shoot, by the time I'm done, I'd have everything I'd need for a little CAS-action.  Know of any philanthropists interested in supporting a willing wanna-be cowboy with a little boyhood dreaming?  And some custom gear?   

Well, even though it's unlikely, I can still have fun imagining all the possibilities, can't I?


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[Steel Horse Bailey]

I KNEW you'd git hooked! 

Well.

Keep in mind, I'm not Phil S. or Mike V. or R.L. Wilson, so I don't claim to be an expert.  Ex-spurt may be closer.    Yes, thanks to several factors, the Remingtons feel solid, 'tho your '90 without the under-barrel "sail" will feel a lot closer to the Colt types.  Does yours have the lanyard ring?  I'm thinking of adding one to my 1875.  Historically, a MUCH bigger percentage of 1875s had the ring than the 90s, but as far as I know, only the 90 repros have the ring.

Here's an interesting article that I have about these Remingtons:









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As to the ammo; the ONLY high-pressure ammo I know of is the stuff made by Cor Bon.  Some of the "Cowboy" oriented brands are close to factory specs, some are lighter.  To get pure spec ammo, get the Remington or Winchester SJHP or JSWC ammo and you'll feel a difference.  Don't take this as gospel, but I THINK that even the reduced CAS loads are only about 5%-10% lower, but I have no way to prove that.  You just have to trust the power/velocity figures quoted by the manufacturer.  And you're right, the HOT ammo states PRETTY CLEARLY on the box that it's intended for use in certain guns only.  They're geared toward hunting, 'tho I suppose they could be used for self defense as well.  (It IS Cor Bon, after all!  )

Some of the peening WILL probably happen - you simply can minimize it with snap caps.  I'll bet those snap caps your CZ "ate" were the plastic ones, right?  That's why I like the aluminum A-Zooms.  ANY auto is hard on snap caps.  Heck, my '66 Winchester and '92 Winnie (both clones - '66 by Uberti, the '92 by Rossi) are really hard on the rims because of the extractor.  Shoot - I've got some WWII 45 ACP steel cased action dummies (for functioning tests, NOT dry firing) that are chewed up by the extractor, so NOTHING is totally safe from destruction! 

Regarding the USFA:  IMHO it WILL be excellent, but not necessarily affordable.  Yes - it's going to be pure US made quality and you WILL get your money's worth.  But, I predict a hefty price tag - probably more than a real Colt 1873, pretty much like USFA's premium guns are NOW!

Your plans for the wire inlay and grip treatment sound awesome.  Personally, I'd stay with natural wood or materials, 'tho - no "dymondwood" (as pretty as it IS.)    Or - go all the way, with stag or elk or perhaps real ivory!  You could still have your brand on the ivory!  I don't know anything about that boron treatment you mention.  Would it end up TOO hard and brittle?  A gun NEEDS to flex some.  I saw some really awesome high-speed photography of a 30-06 rifle and you could see the bullet go down the barrel!  Almost like a snake eating its dinner!  It was an eye opener!!  I've got to think, 'tho, that the treatment you mention might be just the thing for the internal parts, 'tho.  90 Rockwell!    Wow!  Heck, Buck knives are considered to have some of the hardest coating (it IS a surface hardening on Buck's premium knives, NOT solid) used and if I remember right, they average about 56 - 58 R !  I read that most gun barrel steel was in the 35 - 45 or so range.  (At least the S&Ws, Remington rifles etc, NOT the Italian repros.    )

Heck - come to NCOWS.  We have a class - the MOST popular, called "Working Cowboy" that only needs one pistol and a pistol caliber rifle.  You can take your time finding that philanthropist to support your "research."  And see if he has a friend for me, OK? 

[Cal Fornia]

Yes, mine has the lanyard ring.  According to info I read, the 1890... nickled, with lanyard... is what they issued to the reservation police forces...

... by the way, thanks for the article!  Very informative, though it says 1875s were issued to the reservation police, before 1890, and says nothing about the later guns being issued.  Some sources also put the total 1890 production at less than 2000, not the 2020 specified.  Could be they were speaking of only those guns issued to the reservations, but they were unclear on that point.  Still, a very interesting article, indeed.  Oh, and I hope you find a solution to installing a lanyard ring, if you do decide to go ahead with it.  I've read, on the S&W Forum, about offsetting the ring, to avoid the serial number.  But that may not work for a Remington.  Might help to look at how others have dealt with the problem, and contact the appropriate "authorities", to find out what is legal.  I imagine you want to keep it looking original, by keeping the ring centered on the butt....

Good to know I won't be having problems, so long as I avoid Cor-Bon's hotties.  Yes, I just might see about some Cowboy loads, and I've heard .45 Schofield rounds are the equivalent of a "short" 45 Colt, and better for light loads.  Plus, I've seen the Spencer rifle/carbine is available in the Schofield round, amongst other chamberings, and the Spencer would make a nice alternative to a Lightning.  As for self-defense, I would imagine being shot with any load in .45 Colt would be highly unpleasant.

Yep, the snap-caps I bought were the plastic ones, but they had brass "primers", and my CZ's firing pin treated them just like the primer on a regular round, only the multiple hits (first session, no less) resulted in a "pierced primer" effect.  The rest of the snap-cap didn't get used enough to even scratch.  Let alone chew up the rim!

Reguarding the USFA:  I put "affordable" in quotes for a reason... didn't figure I'd get away with less than a four-figure price on those, but they do sound like the best replica Remingtons that will be presently available, and would be well worth saving up for.  Remingtons were US made, so the idea of a modern, US made replica... especially if true to the originals... sounds grand.

In truth, much as engraving has its appeal, I've seen some custom rifles with wire-inlay work that look fantastic, without looking overdone.  But what I like most is the smooth look of inlay work, compared to the "chewed metal" look of engraving.  Gold, silver, platinum, copper, brass wire... adds a bit of color and class, if done right, and a smooth finish, afterwards, when you wipe the gun down.  Nothing to tear up your polishing cloth, and no valleys to catch crud.  As for the "dymondwood", my thought was, well, if I do finish the gun in some hightech, super-hard finish, why not do the same with my grip-wood?  In an all brown color, and cut at the right angle, dymondwood can look pretty close to natural.  But you're right... genuine stag would also look good, especially with a hardchrome finish.  Oh, here I have some links to the place I was talking about:

Boron Carbide Coating...

Bodycote North America...

Bodycote PLC...

I couldn't find any ref to the 90+ Rockwell I mentioned, though I do seem to distinctly remember seeing that figure in print, when I read an article in which the author tried out a 1911 treated with the finish, quite a few years back.  Let's just say, the guy tried to deliberately scratch the finish (in a hidden place on the slide) and couldn't leave a mark on it.  Don't forget, boron-steel is what they use for automotive side-impact door-beams, because they resist deformation with a tensile strength double that of titanium alloys (if I remember right, while reading about the use of both materials in bicycle frames).

"Working Cowboy"... yep, sounds like the persona I'd want to use.  Soon as I find a philanthropist to fund this poor-man's fantasies, I'll send him your way.........       

That sound fair?   


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[Steel Horse Bailey]

Sounds good to me!

[Cal Fornia]

Sorry for the late reply, Mr. Bailey...

A big thank you for your info, and for your friendship towards a greenhorn.  If you run across anything else of interest, let me know... baring "accidents", I'm planning to stop by my neighborhood ragshop after work tomorrow, to peruse their offerings of "Cowboy" mags, so I can continue to learn and explore the subject at hand.

Oh, and if anybody else wants to contribute further, I give my thanks in advance!  Still waiting for the weather to clear and the mud to dry (don't want to sink up to my ankles in muck, just to set up and/or change a target).  When it does, I'll be giving my Remmie some exercise, and I'll see if I can keep everyone in here posted on the results.  Take care.........


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[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Cal.

We were ALL greenhorns once upon a time!

Well, I've heard some good news about the USFA Remington - and some not so good.  It's on other posts around, but basically, they say their '75 repro should be out in 2008.  'Course, if that follows so many other gun companies (Ruger comes to mind with the old Vaquero) it MAY actually come out - in VERY limited quantities - in 2008, but most won't see any for a couple three or four years.

And the reported possible, but not guaranteed price of $1300 puts it out of my and many other's reach. 

So it goes ...

[Cal Fornia]

Back at ya...

Yep, it could be said being a greenhorn is a lot like going through puberty... you feel awkward and clumsy, and you make quite a few mistakes, before you get it right.  Of course, if you're smart, you learn from your mistakes, and you try hard not to trip over your feet more than once a day (or better yet, once a week).

So... good news, bad news.  However, in a way, having to wait a few years could be a benefit... more time to save up that "possible, but not guaranteed" funding amount!  Also, in a few years, some should, hopefully, turn up on the used market, so a savings could be made that way.  After all, I found my 1890 by just walking into a gunshop I hadn't visited in several years, just on a lark.

I really didn't expect the price to be bargain basement, despite hopes for a "basic" version.  The price puts it near to the same class as the Hartford 1875's/1890's, which I've heard are no longer available (would be interesting to hear why, exactly).  Also, the way my taxes are set, I get close to that back in refund (I much prefer not chancing the piper), which means... if nothing else needs the funds... and I don't wince too hard at the price, and hurt myself... I could very well try for one.  I've just never paid that much for a gun, and the only way I'd ever part with such cash, is if I actually got the see and hold and examine an example, to see if it meets my quality standards for the price paid.  Better yet would be the ability to shoot before buying, in the same way that I got to test drive my car, before I plunked down 17 K+ dollars for it, new off the lot (eight years ago, by next July).

Anywho, bed calls... talk later!


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[Steel Horse Bailey]

Well, here we are - later.    I hope others realize that this isn't strictly between us, but it concerns many others - perhaps they simply know already.

greenhorn = (more or less) puberty    Interesting concept, but not always as painful and without the pimples! 

As far as the price, yep - having the time to save may help.  It also gives the price time to jump.  But hey!  USFA recently lowered the price of their guns, so it sounds like they really ARE trying to think of "Average Joe."!!  I assure you, I'll be honored to have my own USFA pistol!  They make a special pistol for NCOWS members that I'd DESPERATELY like to get.  Now, there are TWO pistols I MUST have!    I just hope I can sneak it past Mrs. SHB! 

As far as Hartford Armory goes, the line of guns they made was strictly a first-time venture as they are a defense contractor, specializing in CNC products for the Military.  The owner/CEO, who occasionally can be found on other CAS boards as "Doc Black" and his wife "Lou Graham" are (as time permits) BIG CAS supporters - and Remington lovers.  The HA 1875 I saw highlighted was, without a doubt, the finest made pistol I've ever seen.  Absolutely FLAWLESS internals, finish and action.  However, some other well-respected pards had bad luck with theirs.  It's truly a shame since some came out SO great, while others (fewer) had mucho problems.  Personally, I suspect that the Defense needs/requirements got in the way of the gun making and so the "secondary" business of Hartford Armory had to be curtailed or at least put on hold for the foreseeable future.

I'm like you - I wanna hold a gun and feel it B4 I buy it!  So far, that's the way it's been for me - but for a USFA, I might make an exception~!

Later, Gator ...

[Skinny Preacher 66418]

I'm excited to see the 58/75/90 USFA remingtons....my question though is this. If I saved up to get one....how could I keep myself from buying a second?   

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Skinny P!

I can't really advise you in good faith, but sometimes you just have to give in to your more powerful urges! 

[Skinny Preacher 66418]

Ya know you'd hafta buy two...