.45 cal bullet choices for my Henry

Sixgun Bart · November 25, 2007, 08:01:07 AM

Hi all,

I recently acquired a Uberti !860 Henry in .45 LC. I shot it in a match a few weeks back using my standard Black Powder load of 30 grns GOEX 2FG and a 250grn .452 bullet from Desperado Cowboy Bullets. This has been my standard load for my Rugers and my Marlin and I have quite a few loaded up.

When cleaning the rifle after the match, I seemed had way more leading than I was used to in my Marlin. This could be a result of a number of reasons.

1) New barrel has not been seasoned enough - I noticed that all my other BP guns get better over time
2) Not enough lube in the bullet (but I was wet swabbing the barrel with Balistol between stages)
3) .452 bullet is to small.

I have not slugged the barrel yes, so I do not know if the .452 bullet is too small.

Right now my thinking is to just shoot through my remaining stores of my current load to see if things get better. If they do, then I will continue with my current load. I switched to 2nd Gen Colt's Navy Revolvers, so my Rugers no longer see much use

Ideas?

Driftwood Johnson · November 25, 2007, 06:07:01 PM

Howdy

Are you sure it is leading and not just powder fouling? I shoot lots and lots of Black Powder and one thing that continually amazes me is I never get any leading at all in my BP guns. I get leading when shooting Smokeless, but never get any with BP.

I suppose it is a possibility that you are getting leading if your bullets are too small for your rifling, but frankly, I doubt it with Black Powder. I'll bet what's really happening is your bullets are running out of lube before they reach the muzzle and hard fouling is being deposited near the muzzle. Where are you seeing the 'leading'? Near the muzzle or near the chamber? If it's near the muzzle I'll bet your bore is starved for lube. Frankly, I have never had any luck at all with any of the commercial 'BP' bullets in rifle length barrels. Even the ones with two skimpy lube grooves have always run out of lube before they reached my muzzle and left fouling behind.

The other thing I am a little bit curious about is 30 grains of BP in a 45 Colt. When I load 45 Colt with FFg Goex my typical charge is 2.2CC under a 250 grain bullet. That much powder results in good compression. 2.2CC of Goex FFg comes to about 34.5 grains. If you are only putting 30 grains in, with no wads or other spacers or fillers, perhaps you are not getting enough compression on the powder, and getting an inconsistant burn.

First off, I would suggest you try the PRS Big Lube 250 grain bullet in your Henry. Lubed with a good BP lube like SPG I can just about guarantee you will have plenty of lube the entire length of your barrel. You might also want to try stuffing in a few more grains of powder. Be sure you are getting about 1/16"-1/8" of compression when you seat your bullets. I'll bet your 'leading' issues are really hard fouling issues, and I'll bet they will go away.

Pitspitr · November 27, 2007, 06:42:05 AM

Driftwood,
You Definately CAN get leading with BP. I've done it in my original trapdoor when I tried to pack too much powder in the case. It tore big chunks of lead off the bullets. Seemed like it took hours to get clean.

That having been said, I agree I think he's probably running out of lube

Pettifogger · November 27, 2007, 12:46:46 PM

The Desperado Cowboy bullets are great, I use a lot of them. Howsumever, the do NOT have near enough lube for shooting real BP out of a rifle. You need to get a big lube bullet with proper BP lube and/or put some beewax under your existing bullets. I don't do the beeswax thing anymore as it is simply to time consuming when loading lots of ammo. As far as leading, there may be a little difference in terminology some of the pards are using. You can and most likely will get "lead" in your barrel. However, with proper lube it comes right out on your patch as little flecks of lead. What most people mean when they talk about "leading" is that it welds itself inside your barrel and is an absolute bear to get out. You will get lead in your bore with BP, but you won't usually get leading.

Sixgun Bart · November 28, 2007, 05:32:02 AM

I may have just seen some unusually heavy fouling and not leading. I have ordered some big lub bullets and will increase the powder charge.

Thanks for the tips!

Driftwood Johnson · November 28, 2007, 04:35:13 PM

Pettifogger

I have never noticed any flecks of lead on my cleaning patches when I have cleaned my guns after shooting BP through them. I shot 2 rifles on Sunday, but have already cleaned them. I still have 6 revolvers to clean, hope to do it tonight. I will look for flecks of lead and report back.

I do know that after shooting BP through them for some time now, none of my revolvers or rifles have a trace of 'leading' in them. This includes the stubborn carbon rings that form in the chambers at the mouth of the cartridges. Wen shooting Smokeless I always had the carbon rings and they were difficult to remove. Now that my Colts, Rugers, and clones have been shot exclusively with BP for a number of years, there is no, absolutely none, leading in the chambers. After cleaning the chambers are clean as a whistle. Same is true of the forcing cones and the rearmost part of the barrels, where leading tends to form.

But I'll check for flecks of lead tonight.

Pettifogger · November 28, 2007, 09:50:15 PM

Driftwood, sometimes I wonder if its the lack of humidity here in Arizona. Sometimes even with big lube bullets the barrels seem dry when cleaning. Other days they are fine. Even when dry, the guns clean up easily with just plain old water but you can feel more resistance pushing the patch down the barrel than on a humid day. (Around here that's 20 percent.) When the barrel gets dry and crunchy, I notice flecks and sometimes fine slivers of lead. Comes out OK, but its there.

Dakota Widowmaker · December 19, 2007, 10:45:42 AM

IMHO, the only reliable load I have found to work 100% of the time with 45lc chamber is 35gr of either Pyrodex P or Goex FFFg, Winchester cases, Fed 150 or CCI 350 primers, and a 250gr PRS bullet. Heavy on the crimp.

Some folks have gone so far as to anneal their 45lc brass for BP guns. (I have never found if this helps or not on my Model 92)

If there was a way to polish the chamber easier, I would say to give it a go. The cleaner and smoother the chamber, the less effect fowling will have.

In the end, I went with a 44-40 and fouling is a thing of the past.

will52100 · December 26, 2007, 01:22:08 AM

The PRS big lube bullet is the way to go. I've got a couple of buddies that shoot them sized to .452 in there 73's without problems. As long as the bullet is soft enough to bump up you should be alright.

I shoot a Henry in 45 colt with 38 grains of 3F graf's black powder with 1/8" compression and a PRS bullet with homade lube and sized to .454. I have tried the anealing trick recently again and it works great. Zero blowby, won't even nudge a piece of paper towl lade on top of the bolt/chamber. One thing to remember about these rifles is that overall length is a little more criticle than other designs also. I will say that the annealing trick may or may not be worth it, I normaly don't get enough to worry about. I was just getting cabin fever so I tried it.

On leading, I'd say I never got any till I ran 30 rounds of annealed through it to make sure it'd function and to see if it stoped blow-by. For the first time ever a single pass with the bore snake didn't make the barrel shine and after running a couple wet patches through it came clean with a few small fleks of lead. I wonder if maybe the cold dry air made the fouling harder, don't know about the leading, but it wasn't much and came out a heck of a lot easier than copper fouling from a bolt rifle I have.