Acceptable accuracy for black powder guns

[Arcey]

It's the G34. I just hang on while she takes me for a ride. My l'il Baby Glock ain't bad.

Bought the 34 to play IDPA with my son-in-law. But he's workin' on his Masters 'n ain't got the time right now. Someday.

[Dr. Bob]

Hey Arcey,

Looks to me like ya need a couple of clicks of left windage!

[Arcey]

Naw, Doc. She's right, I'm wrong. Other folks have shot it.

They're draw, fire two, draw fire one, draw fire three, tactical reload until I have no idea what's in it. Occasionally, we'll load dummies in each others' magazines so we'll have somethin' ta clear.

Movin' the sights won't help. I've always had a bad habit of stickin' my finger in too far. I just live with it.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Naw, Doc. She's right, I'm wrong. Other folks have shot it.

They're draw, fire two, draw fire one, draw fire three, tactical reload until I have no idea what's in it. Occasionally, we'll load dummies in each others' magazines so we'll have somethin' ta clear.

Movin' the sights won't help. I've always had a bad habit of stickin' my finger in too far. I just live with it.

I know the feeling.  When I got my Glock 22 I thought I needed to move the sight a hair.  One of the other guys who worked with me at the gunstore asked me to let him try.  He's a Glock trained/certified tech type whose opinion and abilities I respect GREATLY.  He shot a couple mags and they were right on.  I had the other guys shoot it, too and mine were the only ones off, so ... I guess I know what THAT means!    I've had it about 6-7 years now, and no matter what I've tried I always shoot a bit left. 



I ended up moving the sight.  Now everyone ELSE can be off ... but not me!    I guess that's why those sights actually can be drifted in the dovetail! 

[Dr. Bob]

Cricket, you are wise beyond your meager years!!

[Dick Dastardly]

The poll is turning out better than I expected.  Seems there are two kinds of accuracy.  Now that I look at it, I'm wanting loads with a high probability of good precision on the target.  Accuracy depends more on my ability to deliver that precision to the target at hand.

Witness Steel Horse Bailey drifting his sight, etc.  That's to get the accuracy he wanted.  So, the poll was set up wrong from the git go.  But, you pards recovered nicely.  I beg your pardons.  I should have what kind of precision you wanted and left accuracy alone.

Sorry about that.

DD-DLoS

[w44wcf]

DD,
Interesting topic!  Regarding the accuracy standards, how many groups should be fired and an average taken to get the MOA?

My standard is a minimum of three 5 shot groups.  One, best group does not tell the story and that's what some of the pards may be referencing(?).

In the lever action pistol cartridge rifles, many folks shoot at 25 yards and feel that a 1" group average is great. That's 4 MOA. 

I like to group my pistol cartridge leverguns @ 50 yards and 100 yards. In my experience and the experience of C.E. Harris, a renouned firearms expert, pistol cartridge leverguns, on the average are not capable of much better than 4 MOA on a consistant basis. The key word is consistant.  That is mainly due to the sighting system, and inconsistant barrel vibrations due to the barrel / mag tube arrangement.

In other words, I may shoot a 2 MOA group one day and the next time out shoot one at 5 MOA.     Every once in awhile a 1 1/2 MOA group will be printed.   I voted for 3 MOA which would be the equivalent of 3/4" @ 25 yards, 1 1/2" @ 50 yards, 3" @ 100 yards, That would be darn good shooting from a pistol cartridge lever gun on a consistant basis.

Regarding 1 MOA (1.06" at 100 yards)...three 5 shot groups would be, well, quite an accomplishment since many scoped bolt action rifles can't do that!

w44wcf

[Dick Dastardly]

All good observations w44wcf.

The poll is written to reference BPCR for the smallest moa and SASS main match pistols as the largest regardless of option chosen.

Ok, that's precision.  As to accuracy, you make very valid points.  Differing conditions can and do change results.

Lab results are one thing.  Actual experience is usually less ideal.  My pistol tests were fired from a mechanical rest indoors.  Lever rifle tests were on a 70 degree overcast day with calm wind.  The BPCR (Rolling Block Remington 45-70) tests were off a concrete shooting bench from under a shelter on a 70 degree day, again with calm wind and thin overcast.  There is absolutely no correlation between real world experience and lab conditions. . . Concrete benches and the like being to heavy to lug around.

My minimum standards are set to prove out a bullet design.  That's why my vote had to be for option One.  I have a more lenient set of standards for real shooting situations.  More like option Three.  What I do want to know is that the rig and ammo I'm shooting is capable of all the accuracy I need in any given real world use.

I'll collect the material from this thread and put it to use in my "Fall" Big Lube™ newsletter, when it comes out this winter.

DD-DLoS

[Steel Horse Bailey]

This is an interesting topic - and not because I chimed in. 

I hope it continues.

[Montana Slim]

I'm still not convinced.
"Sub moa, 1 moa, 2 moa" This is a bit too much of a tall-tale side as far as BP/cast bullet and traditional-type firearms we deal with.
Under most circumstances the last two categories are doable.

Slim

[Dick Dastardly]

I'll see if I can modify the poll.  I think Slim has a good point.  Not that our guns pattern like shotguns, but not all of 'em are tack drivers either.

DD-DLoS