Reloading the .38 S&W Cartridge

[Barbarosa]

I just bought a LEE 3-die set for the .38 S&W Cartridge.
I have some Pyrodex powder that I would like to use for powder, for now.
I am shooting an 1880's Hopkins & Allen top-break revolver.
This revolver is in excellent condition, but I still want to shoot light loads.
The factory loading for blackpowder is 15 grains.
I was thinking of using a liitle grease under the bullet, then a thin card under it.
This is my first time loading BP in a cartridge.

Anyone here load this round w/ BP?
Any links to discussion here, or any advice on this subject?

                                 TY

[Pettifogger]

I never weigh black powder or the subs.  All the matters is to make sure to put enough powder in the case so you don't have any airspace with the bullet you are going to use.  With real BP in the short S&W case you need very little compression.  (1/16" is more than enough.)  You don't need any compression with the subs.  With real BP, you need a bullet with BP compatible lube.  Since the barrel is short and most pocket pistol side matches are only five rounds, you can get away with a bullet with a little less lube than you would need for a main match pistol.  You can use regular smokeless style bullets for the subs.  Won't make much difference with a pocket pistol at CAS distances, but the bullet size on the .38 S&W is usually little larger than a regular .38.  Depending on your dies and what size expander it has, a .357 or .358 bullet might be a little loose in the case.  If your crimper has the bullets nice and tight in the case, I wouldn't worry about looking for .360 bullets at the distances we shoot.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I'm not sure you can get 15 grains in a .38 S&W without a lot of compression.  My .38 Spl loads are about 18.5 gr of 3F Goex with the RCBS 38-140 CM.  See Pettifoggers post.  Only load enough to fit under the bullet with just a touch of compression. 

Do you cast?  If so, use the lightest bullet available and try it without sizing.  This requires panlubing, or as I do for the few rounds required, "finger-lubing".  Just rub lube over the grooves so they are left full.

PS; - 1 hour later.  Did some "drop-tests"
9mm case, poured from spout     =   13gr 3FGoex  makes a case full
38 S&W (both W-W & R-P)        =     14 gr              "

through a 24" drop tube, 13 grains fills a .38 S&W case to within 1/8"   
                                    10    "     .........................................1/4"

My suggestion is to start trying with about 10 grains of 3F and see if it fills YOUR case enough to slightly compress under YOUR bullet.

[Montana Slim]

I've used .7cc of BP with a commercial 125 gr RNFP (.358 Dia) and a homemade "wonderwad" equivilent with good result.

Regards,

Slim

[litl rooster]

 I load my ammo for my deringer with .7 cc of BP ffg I have never loaded pistol cals with Pyrodex.  I don't believe these older pocket guns and derringers need a full load of powder. Just my opinion

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

For rounds like this, I see no difference in concepts and practice between BP & Pyrodex.  Pyrodex still has to be thoroughly cleaned.

[Appalachian Ed]

Leave Pyrodex to to nancy boys, shoot real BP.

[w44wcf]

Barbarosa,
Nice vintage box of .38 S&W's.  Neat.

Pards,
The capacity of the .38 S&W case can be deceiving since the factory bullet protrudes less into the case than the .38 Special, thus adding capacity.

I dissected one of a couple of .38 S&W factory black powder rounds that I had and found that the factory had used .15" of compression on the 15 gr. charge of b.p.

With current brass, I found that 13.5 grs. of b.p. would require the same amount of compression (Pyrodex would be about 30% less by weight). The factory bullet seating depth was .22".

When loading b.p. ammunition, compression can easily be done with the neck expanding die, or with the bullet, if it's hard enough (w.w. alloy).

There was a "Group Buy" earlier this year for a 6 cavity Lee custom bullet mold to make replications of the .38 S&W factory bullets (below) over on the "Cast Boolits" forum.



That is now closed and the molds have been shipped. Perhaps if you contact "Happy7" who was the honcho, maybe he would sell you some bullets(?).
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=15478

Good luck with your project.

w44wcf