1851 .44

Stophel · October 20, 2007, 02:42:30 PM

Is the "1851 Navy" with the step-cylinder in .44 something that actually existed 130 years ago, or is it totally a modern invention?

Fox Creek Kid · October 20, 2007, 05:06:42 PM

It's bogus. Never existed.

Marshal Will Wingam · October 20, 2007, 05:11:37 PM

I looked in all my books and can't find one reference to an 1851 Colt in anything but .36 cal. The conversions were usually to .38 rimfire or .38 centerfire so that would also indicate no .44's.

St. George · October 20, 2007, 05:22:29 PM

Never existed during the period.

But that never bothered the Italians when they felt they could fill a niche...

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Pettifogger · October 20, 2007, 06:17:47 PM

Pietta in particular builds lots of guns that never existed and then names some in such a way as to be thoughly confusing. For example, there was an 1862 pocket model commonly called the Police model. Uberti and Pietta both build 1862 Police models. It is a small frame five shot. Pietta also has a gun they call the 1862 Army Police. No such animal ever existed. It is basically an 1861 Navy with a shortened barrel and fluted cylinder and is built on the standard Navy size frame and is a six shot. By definition "Navies" are .36 caliber. "Armies" are .44 caliber. Thus, historically there can be no such thing as a .36 caliber Army or a .44 caliber Navy. When Colt advertised guns they would advertise them as being of "Navy" or "Army" caliber. Everyone back then knew it meant .36 and .44 respectively.

litl rooster · October 22, 2007, 09:32:15 PM

Love shootin my Bogus Navy's

Ransom Gaer · October 23, 2007, 04:55:20 PM

Colt never built a .44 caliber Navy as far as I know like Pettifogger says. And I wouldn't be caught dead shooting one. I am kinda particular about what I shoot. I prefer shooting historically accurate guns if I can. Now I will get off my soapbox.

Iffn you want to shoot one, I'd say go for it. You won't get any complaints from me about what you're shootin'. One of those .44 Navies will make plenty of smoke.

I have seen others use them and they sure looked like they were having fun.

Ransom Gaer

Trinity · October 23, 2007, 07:51:22 PM

Quote from: Pettifogger on October 20, 2007, 06:17:47 PM
Pietta in particular builds lots of guns that never existed and then names some in such a way as to be thoughly confusing. For example, there was an 1862 pocket model commonly called the Police model. Uberti and Pietta both build 1862 Police models. It is a small frame five shot. Pietta also has a gun they call the 1862 Army Police. No such animal ever existed. It is basically an 1861 Navy with a shortened barrel and fluted cylinder and is built on the standard Navy size frame and is a six shot. By definition "Navies" are .36 caliber. "Armies" are .44 caliber. Thus, historically there can be no such thing as a .36 caliber Army or a .44 caliber Navy. When Colt advertised guns they would advertise them as being of "Navy" or "Army" caliber. Everyone back then knew it meant .36 and .44 respectively.

Please forgive the intrusion while I hijack this thread for a quick question... Interesting you should mention the Police model. Have you heard of a "Captain's" revolver or pistol? I've got a friend who does not take part in CAS, but he has (what seems to me) a Uberti 1862 Police Model. Though he insists that it is a "Captain's", I can't find any reference to it on the web.

Pettifogger · October 23, 2007, 11:43:21 PM

Colt never made anything called a Captain's model and I have ever heard of a reproduction Colt style revolver called a Captain's model.

Griff · October 24, 2007, 02:17:52 AM

Quote from: Trinity on October 23, 2007, 07:51:22 PM
Please forgive the intrusion while I hijack this thread for a quick question... Interesting you should mention the Police model. Have you heard of a "Captain's" revolver or pistol? I've got a friend who does not take part in CAS, but he has (what seems to me) a Uberti 1862 Police Model. Though he insists that it is a "Captain's", I can't find any reference to it on the web.

In James Serven's book, Colt Firearms, 1836 - 1900 he states that the 1862 Police model was quite popular among Army Officers, and was commonly referred to as the "Officer's Model." (pg 136)

Stophel · October 24, 2007, 09:14:41 AM

I'm not lookin' to get one, it was just a curiosity question. I DO want a regular .36 cal. one, though.

Trinity · October 24, 2007, 07:45:16 PM

Quote from: Pettifogger on October 23, 2007, 11:43:21 PM
Colt never made anything called a Captain's model and I have ever heard of a reproduction Colt style revolver called a Captain's model.

Quote from: Griff on October 24, 2007, 02:17:52 AM
In James Serven's book, Colt Firearms, 1836 - 1900 he states that the 1862 Police model was quite popular among Army Officers, and was commonly referred to as the "Officer's Model." (pg 136)

Thanks Gents. That's what I thought. I'm not going to correct him though. He likes it and that's all that matters.

Quote from: Stophel on October 24, 2007, 09:14:41 AM
I'm not lookin' to get one, it was just a curiosity question. I DO want a regular .36 cal. one, though.

I've also been wanting to get a .36, but will probably just stick with .44 just to make it easier on myself... won't need another flask or different balls.

Sixgun Bart · October 24, 2007, 08:40:58 PM

I have a great book on Firearms of the civil war and it does show the first prototype for the 1860 Army which was a Navy Frame, Navy loader with a .44 barrel and cylinder. Just a prototype and never put into production.

I will dig up the book if anyone is interested.

John E. Ringo · November 16, 2007, 07:12:05 PM

For a "bogus" gun, they sure are pretty. That .44 cylinder in the Navy frame looks darn good.

Flint · November 17, 2007, 06:27:38 PM

The only other caliber a Colt Navy was found in was a Colt experimental model in .40 caliber, never produced for sale.