Original style conversions

[Stophel]

I just "came back" from Robert Millington's website ( www.armsportllc.com ) and wow, that's neat stuff!  He shows one Remington 58 conversion with a real case hardened frame that is the most beautiful pistol I believe I have ever seen!  To me, something like this would just be the ultimate! (though I might have to have that barrel cut down....).  I might have to look into getting something like this done, rather than getting myself an 1875 (OR....maybe in addition to an 1875....   if only I had a money tree).  Make it a .44 Remington cf, just like the original ones were.  While I would like to have something that has ammunition more readily available, I suppose I wouldn't mind loading up all my own, especially since I got lots of black gunpowder I need to get rid of!  Besides, the time one spends loading a percussion gun could be spent at the reloading press...with a lot more reliable product as a result.

On the internet, I see a relatively large number of old converted Remingtons, far more than I see 1875's.  They seem to have been rather common.  All of them done with the thin fixed recoil shield plate, firing pin on the hammer nose, and an ordinary type bored-through one piece cylinder.  Some have ejectors, I BELIEVE I have seen one that does not, reloading was done by removing the cylinder and dumping the shells out then putting new ones in and replacing the cylinder.   This "solid backing plate" type conversion "Should" be the one that people are doing  .  I have seen only one or two of the "R&D" style conversions, both on .32 pocket guns.  There are a few loading gate conversions floating around that I have seen (I have an article in Man at Arms from a few years ago with a really neat experimental Remington factory conversion that works rather like the Kirst loading gate type), but these seem to be an anomaly.

Anyway, does anyone have an example of Mr. Millington's work?  And, if you don't mind telling me, what would a setup like this cost?  It'll be a good while before I get around to seriously considering this, so I'm just trying to get a feel of things right now.

[Fox Creek Kid]

It'll be a good while before I get around to seriously considering this, so I'm just trying to get a feel of things right now.

It'll be longer than you think................Millington isn't taking on any new work and no on else makes an authentic thin plate Remington conversion. By the way, there are several 1875's on the Internet. They are just not on gunbroker.com or auctionarms.com but rather on more esoteric sites. 

http://www.ocyoung.com/Remingtons.htm

http://www.antiquegunlist.com/detail.php?siteid=836

[Stophel]

I just happened upon the antique gun list the other night.  Very cool stuff.

I'll just have to get myself an 1875 to tide me over...

Too bad they put that cross pin in the frame...it sure spoils the smooth lines of the gun.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

.....
Too bad they put that cross pin in the frame...it sure spoils the smooth lines of the gun.

What's worse, is that when Uberti started making them, they were just like the originals: NO cross pin. 

[Fox Creek Kid]

What's better is that USFA will have CORRECT 1875's WITH the Remington name on them this time next year!!

[Stophel]

Does anyone have a schematic on the proper cylinder axis retaining system?  I wonder if the Uberti could be converted to the proper form...

The original 75's came with a 5 3/4" barrel, though as I understand it, it was always advertised as 5 1/2", which is what Uberti produces.  That extra 1/4" sure makes a difference in the way the gun looks, and the original ones look much better.  The 5 1/2" Ubertis look a bit snubby to me.  I believe my course of action is going to be to get the long one, and once I have it in my hand, decide if I want to cut it down or not, and if I do, I want it the 5 3/4".  Cutting the barrel is no problem for me, but I cannot put on a sight like originally was on them.  I suppose the barrel is milled with a small slot for the blade to be soldered into???  I don't have a milling machine.  Who is a good single action gunsmith that could do this sort of thing?

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Stophel, I've heard of converting the Remingtons by TIG welding (I think  ) the hole in the frame and then simply drilling/threading the appropriate place on the ejector housing.  I'd bet that the cylinder rod also has a small groove for the stop-screw to go into - but that's a minor deal.  It's the Tig welding aspect that puts me off.  1) Weld-fill the hole 2) Re-machine flat on both sides of frame 3) Re-blue or "color-case" finish the now finished frame or at least the spot on the frame.

Sounds like a job for an accomplished gunsmith/machinist to me.  And that leave ME out!    I SUPPOSE someone handy could do a JB Weld fill on the hole and do a Sharpie re-finish, but ... While POSSIBLE, that method sounds a bit half-a$$ed to me.  And perhaps not fully permanent, either - but I don't know - I've never worked with JB Weld.  I've heard great things about it, but ...

[Stophel]

I wish I could weld, but try though I might, I have just never been successful.

The hole in the frame is easy to peg.  Tap it for a screw, counterbore it a little on each side and put a shanked screw(s) in it, cut off most of the excess, and peen it tight.  I do this for modifying lock plates all the time.  Done well, it will be VERY difficult to see the filled hole. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Interesting.

How would you re-finish the "spot" on the frame?  The Uberti 75s have that "case hardened" look.

[St. George]

While the Uberti's 'do' have that case-hardened look - the originals weren't case-hardened, but were blued.

Hiding the hole then is easier - but you'll still see it, as you will any area you've TIG-welded, since the affected area is affected by heat - and the welding uses a different metallurgy.

It shows as a stain or watery spot where the heat discoloration occurs.

If one wants to do this work on an Italian replica and doesn't want anyone to see the work done, then do it right - de-farb all of the Italian proof marks, change the grips to American Walnut or faux Ivory, and nickel plate it, as so many were during the era.

Plating hides a multitude of sins and good nickel plating has a nice, period 'look' to it.

As to the front sight - a 'good' machine shop should be able to help - all it takes is the appropriate cutting wheel - but you can do a good job with a Swiss Needle File of the appropriate size, yourself - if you're patient.

On the other hand - if it's going to eventually be supplied by Remington - then save up and get one that's going to have both value as well as some sort of 'history' to it - and something you don't have to screw with.

Shoot this one, and enjoy it for what it is - a strong, well-made shooter - and start putting your spare change in a jar.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[sundance44`s]

The 1858 Remington conversions were around a long time before Colt ever had a cartridge gun offered to the public ..from 1866 to 1876 the converted 1858 Remington would have been the pistol of choice for those who wanted big bore cartridge . It was 1876 before the buying public could buy the 1873 Colt peace maker catridge guns . The converted Remmingtons saw service in many Indian wars that you never hear much about . Who knows maybe Remington didn`t mind takeing a back seat to so many thinking the Colt won the west . 

[St. George]

Actually - the buying public had the option of buying a Colt Conversion earlier than you think.

The Thuer conversions were submitted to the Army on January 20, 1867, with Patents dated to September 15, 1868 on factory conversions.

They were front-loading revolvers - but they 'were' cartridge revolvers - and were made for the line of Colts, with an estimated 5000 built for them.

Next up were the Richards Conversions - with his patent of August 18, 1868 (for a breech-loading firearm) - and the Richards Conversion patent of July 1871.

This was the one that the Army would use most heavily during the early Indian Wars, alongside those converted Remingtons in inventory.

For the best reference on these historic revolvers - look for:

'A Study of Colt Conversions and Other Percussion Revolvers'  - by R. Bruce McDowell

'The Peacemaker and its Rivals' - by John Parsons - also has some interesting information.

As to Remington taking a back seat - most probably it was a business decision or agreement that they'd concentrate on long guns and ammunition, and Colt wouldn't - thus freeing both parties from competition and allowing greater prosperity.

Another observation is that firearms often took on a 'generic' name, regardless of actual manufacture - with lever-actions being called 'Winchesters' - revolvers being called 'Colts' and shotguns being called 'Greeners'.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[sundance44`s]

Good point about Remington..Since childhood I have always thought Remington was the number one shotgun maker in this country ...Shot guns that the working class could afford with some flair yet on a working mans budget .

[Hoof Hearted]

Stophel

I have one of Bob Millington's Army conversions in 44 CF. It has his "antiqued" finish (which is superbly done). I also have a Navy that was factory converted.

Email me if you want more info:

buckoff@alltel.net