Lining 10 gauge to 12 gauge

[Dusty Morningwood]

Been reading and inquiring about how to determine if a damascus barreled shotgun is safe to shoot with BP.  Lots of warnings about exploding guns, but mostly of the "I have heard...." variety and probably the result of higher pressure smokeless shells being used.  I shot an antique c&b shotgun for several years in the 70s after using the Dixie Gunworks method of testing, you know, the tire and looong string method.  Several people have poo-pooed this test, but for us long time muzzleloaders, bad mouthing Turner Kirkland is tantamount to kicking our dogs!!

Any of you gunsmiths have experience with these old shotguns and the actual risks involved in shooting BP in them?  The parameters of the pieces in question are: damascus/twist steel barrels; tight lockup; shiney bores with no pits; no dull spots found with the "tap test". 

Of course, another option suggested is having barrels lined.  If I had a 10 gauge sxs with only fair to good bores, what would it cost to reline to 12 gauge?  Anyone know? 

[TAkaho kid]

Dusty,

Quite few folks are using the Briley tubes. However they do cancel out the benefits of having a ten gauge.
http://www.briley.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=16

There are a few places that do line barrels. I would grab a copy of the Double gun Journal and look through the ads. Linning will run around $1500.00

Again, if there are no flaws in the barrel (dents, bulges fractured welds etc.) I would not hesatate to shoot it with BP or appropriate low pressure nitro loads. Commom sense rules.

Best regards,

T.K.

[Dusty Morningwood]

There are a few places that do line barrels. I would grab a copy of the Double gun Journal and look through the ads. Linning will run around $1500.00

YIKES!!  Going to Plan B. 

[Advertising]

[Coffinmaker]

Over the last 6 years I have personally run into two Damascus side by's that let go.  One cost it's owner his thumb and index finger.  Twern't pretty.

There is no effective test of a Damascus barrel other than magna-flux.  The problem is the welds themselves.  The hammer weld, while effective at the time, is not sound over time.  The welds in some cases have been oxidizing (corrosion) for 150 years.  Some of the newer guns less, but still oxidizing none the less.  The voids are often microscopic.  Ringing the barrel like a bell may not find such voids.

Proof testing is also not effective.  Proof only means the barrel held for that one firing.  It may well fail the next firing.  If you can't magna-fllux it, tube it or hang it on the wall.  There are many so called "experts' out there who are only repeating what they have been told by someone who "knows."  The individual who "knows" does not own an NDI lab.

There are also those who claim knowledge based on the gun they have in their hands.  It hasn't blown up.  Yet.  They will also get up on the soap box and pontificate the safety of Damascus barrels based on their experience with the gun in their hands and state "they are save with BP or "low-brass" smokeless because mine is."  So far.

Absolutely no one, it the ammunition industry or in the barrel business will tell you a Damascus gun is safe to shoot until it has undergone NDI (non destructive inspection).

The key point to remember when someone hops on the "Damascus is safe to shoot" soap box is this:  It isn't their hand wrapped around your shot gun.  It's your hand.  How lucky do you feel about that hand??

Coffinmaker   

[Marshal Will Wingam]

It's damascus. That means, "wall-hanger". Safer and far cheaper to go get a new Stoeger or something for ±$350 and put the damascus one over the mantle.

[St. George]

Your best reference is going to be found in the Double Gun Journal.

Read this one first - http://doublegunshop.com/gunther1.htm

Then ask questions here - http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Damascus barrels are like steel-belted radial tires - comprised of many layers - and when a layer separates, it can begin to weaken the entire construction of the piece.

It may not weaken it to failure - but you'll never know to what extent it's affected the piece - until it gives way.

Then - it gets dramatic in a helluva hurry.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!
 

[Dusty Morningwood]

Seems the doublegunshop guys all shoot some damascus barreled guns, but thy are serious cranks and also tend to buy much higher end collectable English or American guns.  Oh, and one of them just replied something to the effect that he wouldn't let a Cowboy Action shooter anywhere near one of his guns.    Go get him, lads! 

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Well, Dusty, you have all the information you need to make a reasonably sound decision, now. 

[Delmonico]

Reproofing a Damascus gun involves far more than firing a couple heavy loads in it to see if it blows up, it can be done by someone who really knows what he's doing and can read a mike.  But it should only even be thought of being done on a high quality one.  No offense to anyone, but if you have to ask how, don't even think about it.

If I could find the right gun at a price I could afford I would reproof it myself, however it would be for me to use for my own pleasure, at a distance from anyone else it could hurt.  I would not want to go to court and be sued by someone that got hurt because I was wrong, with all the warnings in loading manuals and on boxes of shells I doubt you'd have much of a chance in court.

Last time I talked to the fella that owns Cylinder and Slide up in Fremont Nebraska he said he does reproof on high quality guns. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Seems the doublegunshop guys all shoot some damascus barreled guns, but thy are serious cranks and also tend to buy much higher end collectable English or American guns.  Oh, and one of them just replied something to the effect that he wouldn't let a Cowboy Action shooter anywhere near one of his guns.    Go get him, lads! 

Just goes to show that even well-paid folks can be ignorant.

[Delmonico]

Seems the doublegunshop guys all shoot some damascus barreled guns, but thy are serious cranks and also tend to buy much higher end collectable English or American guns.  Oh, and one of them just replied something to the effect that he wouldn't let a Cowboy Action shooter anywhere near one of his guns.    Go get him, lads! 

Just goes to show that even well-paid folks can be ignorant.

Oh I don't know if I'd get too upset with him, I've seen a few things over the years, questions and comments from a small minority of Cowboy Shooters about reloading that have made my hair stand on end.  A good chance this guy has read or talked to some of them.