.38 Cowboy Action Loads

Slim Chance · June 05, 2007, 03:35:12 AM

Howdee folks from ways down under - dern near the end of the World in fact - I am in New Zealand and lookin to get some local information on light loads for my Vaquero 38/357's. I want to run them in the .38 calibre and I want to use Titegroup powder as I still have a large stock from when I was using 44/40's. The loads I seek are those that offer very little recoil so I don't miss so many targets!!!!!.
Any help you folks can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Kindest Regards

Slim Chance

Camille Eonich · June 05, 2007, 10:17:41 AM

Howdy Slim, I can't advise you on the Titegroup but don't try to get your loads too load. Very light loads will actually slow you down a bit because you'll be waiting for the feedback from the target hit. Yeah I know we aren't supposed to do that but then again there aren't many of us that have been able to break that habit.

I shoot with several regional and world champions and most of them are pushing loads in between 700 and 800 fps. My own average 750.

Good shooting and be careful!

Doc Shapiro · June 05, 2007, 10:56:12 AM

The other problem with very light loads is that they group poorly. A load that prints 3in at 8 or 9m sure cuts down on the target size. Work up a moderate load that groups really well.

My load is a 125gr bullet at approx 720m/sec.

Tensleep · June 05, 2007, 11:15:56 AM

I load Titegroup in my 38's with 125g bullets.

My load is 3.1g (three point one grains) of Titegroup, and a KICK ASS crimp.
Works well in both rifle and pistol.

POI is POA and I get great groups.

Your mileage may vary

Wild Ben Raymond · June 05, 2007, 11:36:04 AM

Try this site; http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Silver Creek Slim · June 05, 2007, 01:42:37 PM

Or http://www.hodgdon.com/data/cowboy/spc38spe.php

Slim

Plowboy · July 12, 2007, 12:36:26 PM

Okay, Pards, this is another newbie question. 158 grain bullets (the commercial stuff & reloads that I've bought) seem to work in my pistols and carbine but both pistols shoot somewhat low. Since I'm just starting to set up for reloading is there a direction that I should go to try to correct this with a lighter or heavier bullet and/or powder charge? I seem to remember that lighter bullets actually shoot lower but that was a long time ago.
Much obliged for any advice you can offer.
Plowboy

Camille Eonich · July 12, 2007, 01:17:14 PM

If you like the load and it groups well and windage is good then I would suggest filing the front site to accomodate the elevation.

Generally though, yes a heavier bullet will shoot a bit higher.

Plowboy · July 12, 2007, 04:58:09 PM

Thank'ya Ma'am, that's what I thought.
How about increasing the powder? (With me it's not the recoil that I'm avoiding with the .38's, it's the running over my hobby budget!)
Will a heavier load shoot higher?

Camille Eonich · July 12, 2007, 06:22:57 PM

It may affect it a little bit but probably not enough to notice. And yeah, lead has gone way up.

Marshal Will Wingam · July 12, 2007, 07:21:58 PM

I was shooting my 38 spl loads with 125 gr RNFP bullets and 3.2 gr TiteGroup powder. They were so-so but when I upped the charge to 3.5 gr powder, they tightened up nicely. I tried some at 3.8 gr powder also and they were good loads, but not any better than the 3.5 gr ones.

Driftwood Johnson · July 12, 2007, 10:32:50 PM

Increasing recoil will raise your point of impact. You can increase recoil with either more powder or a heavier bullet, or both. Of course, stay within recommended parameters from a recognized published manual.

Marshal Will Wingam · July 13, 2007, 12:21:33 AM

Quote from: Driftwood Johnson on July 12, 2007, 10:32:50 PMIncreasing recoil will raise your point of impact. You can increase recoil with either more powder or a heavier bullet, or both. Of course, stay within recommended parameters from a recognized published manual.

Hotter loads don't always result in a higher POI. I did some 165 gr 45 loads recently where more powder tightened the group but didn't change the POI at all. I guess the bullets were light enough to simply get out the end faster without increasing the recoil. Heavier bullets sure bring it up, though. I have some 158 gr .38's loaded to see if I can bring the POI up the same way since the 125's hit a little low for my sights and I'd rather change the load than file my sights off.

Quote from: Driftwood Johnson on July 12, 2007, 10:32:50 PMOf course, stay within recommended parameters from a recognized published manual.

This is the best advice you can get.

Plowboy · July 17, 2007, 01:53:25 AM

Okay, I've read a lot of your posts and you guys seem to know what you're talkin' about. So I can't quit asking questions until you tell me to shut up!
What about lead bullet velocity? Is it true that lead bullets should be held to under 800 fps?
Do softer bullets really make a difference?
I like my .357 pistols and ain't real shy of recoil since I shot .45 autos a lot. Is it reasonable to shoot a bullet heavier than 158 gr.?

As I said, much obliged for the advice.
Plowboy

Marshal Will Wingam · July 17, 2007, 10:54:13 AM

Bear Creek makes some bullets that are 180 gr. I use their bullets almost exclusively. I like the moly coating because it doesn't lead up so much. Some people say you get moly build-up in your guns, but I haven't found that in almost 10 years of shooting them at CAS matches. I loaded some maximum .45 loads one time to see how they worked and was able to push a 255 gr bullet clear through the short dimension of a seasoned 10x12 beam. With my 38-55 I get about 50 rounds before any leading builds up enough to affect accuracy. Those are hot loads and it does clean out just fine anyway.

http://www.pathfindersports.com/p/pathfindersports/default.asp?S=500&A=F&SearchText=&CategoryID=521

Arcey · July 17, 2007, 11:46:53 AM

Whatever ya wanna shoot that's safe 'n undamagin' is reasonable. I've used 170 grain Keith's (Lyman 358429) on many occasions until I decided it was a waste of lead.

Leadin' can be caused by several things. My Rugers would lead with the same loads my Ubertis would eat all day without leadin'. Just an example.

As Will has, I've been told awful things about Moly. All I can prove, thru experience, is the use of a Moly based lube on my home-cast bullets cut the leadin' in the aforementioned Rugers to next to nothin'. No loss of accuracy or objectionable residue left in the barrels.

Will Blastem · July 17, 2007, 02:58:39 PM

Quote from: Arcey on July 17, 2007, 11:46:53 AM
Whatever ya wanna shoot that's safe 'n undamagin' is reasonable. I've used 170 grain Keith's (Lyman 358429) on many occasions until I decided it was a waste of lead.

Leadin' can be caused by several things. My Rugers would lead with the same loads my Ubertis would eat all day without leadin'. Just an example.

As Will has, I've been told awful things about Moly. All I can prove, thru experience, is the use of a Moly based lube on my home-cast bullets cut the leadin' in the aforementioned Rugers to next to nothin'. No loss of accuracy or objectionable residue left in the barrels.

Just to ecco what Arcey is sayin bout moly...I have a pair of Ruger New Vaq in 45lc that were leading up at the end of the forcing cone and carbon ringing in the cylinders. I switched to moly coated bullets and the leading and carbon rings completely disappeared. Those moly bullets are a real mess to load and carry around though and that moly rubs off on everything

. What's really wierd though, is after firing about 1K rounds through each gun I switched back to non-moly bullets and the leading /carbon is still gone...Go figure, hey?