1851 - Conversions and Rust Bluing

[Flinch Morningwood]

Getting ready to convert my 1851 Pietta Colt's to cartridge using the R&D screw in conversion cyilinder kit...just received the cylinders, jig and their drill/tap combo.

Now the question is, once I finish grinding the cartridge loading slot in the frame, do I just slap some bluing on the new slot or do I slow rust blue the entire gun? 

I bought some Laurel Mountain Barrel Brown and degreaser...then I took the zinc off a spike and tested out the process (Rust, boil, scrub, repeat) and kind of like the "Slow rust blue" that develops...

Now, looking through a book (I beleive it was Cowboy Trappings of the Old West), I saw a converted 1851 that looked like it had been blued over all the steel parts...

Were the original 1851 hardened where the repro's are or were they blued all over?  If they were case hardened, did some gunsmiths (when converting) just decide to reblue the entire gun?

Below is a picture (non-conversion) from an antique site and it doesn't look case hardened to me...but that may just be because it's old...

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/1851-colt.htm

If I didn't want to do that, is there a way to color case harden just the new loading slot?

Just thought I'd throw the question out there and see what flies back....

[Dusty Morningwood]

The frame should be case hardened (or at least colored to look that way).  I think there is a chemical solution that you can buy to replicate this and redo the ground out slot that way.

[Fox Creek Kid]

There is no shortcut to case coloring/case hardening. The makers today use a cyanide solution and as everyone knows it looks like crap. Real case coloring ain't cheap, approx. $100 for a SA frame. Here's a good company:   http://www.classicgunsinc.com/

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[Flint]

After polishing my port, I just used Blue Wonder to spot in some color to match the CCH on the rest of the frame.  any cold blue, or even a torch will do, but stopping where you want the color to be is more difficult with a torch.

[Flinch Morningwood]

FOX CREEK - That's a pretty sweet job of color case hardening those guys do!

[Fox Creek Kid]

A buddy of mine had them re-case an 1885 Win. High Wall and he said it was perfection. I've not seen it but he never exaggerates.

[Flinch Morningwood]

I spoke with the Guys at the Color case hardening place and, if I bring the frame up to 400 grit polish, they can do the gun for $80...

I am considering it because after installing the first R&D gated conversion, I noticed that it isn't an exact fit to the rear of the frame.  To get the fit where the frame matches the gated section, I will probably have to do some filing.  After that, I would probably do the polishing then send the peices out to get color hardened.

This is the first conversion I've done - should the gated peice have been a pretty near fit (circumfrance wise) to the rear of the frame?  The left side is pretty close but there is about a 1/32 difference on the right above the opening...I figured on just filing this to match after I cut the loading channel...BTW, I did use their $40 jig to install.

I probably haven't described this very well but would apprciate any insites from pards who have done this before....

[Rolinda Renegade]

Hey again Little Al.   We seem to be having the same problems here.  I too used the 40 dollar jig and the rings on both my guns were off just a fraction of an inch.  That did cause problems with the hand and the cylinder rotating as well.  I would have thrown them both in the trash months ago but im about 1K into this and I want something out of it. lol   I just left the gap alone.  I dont think anyone will see it.  But I do think I should have waited another few months and got a Kirst or just bought 1 from Taylors.   Wow this is a Pain in the butt.   

[Flinch Morningwood]

Now that I have got one of the pistols done, I am very happy with it.  I did end up shortening the hand a bit and now it works like clockwork.  The folks at R&D returned my email with a call and agreed that was the correct solution.

As for the frame, I ground the frame to match the loading gate section and then polished the whole frame up to 600 grit wet/dry.  I used a Dremel tool to grind but could just as easily used a good file.

I put on some Oxpho-blue but, due to the prior case hardening, it didn't take so well...so I hit it with some 0000 steel wool and now it has a sort of mottled look that that isn't too far from a bad color case job 

My plan is to use it this season and then send the frame out to the place listed by Fox Creek to be color cased over the winter...and slow-rust blue the cyclinder, barrel and ejection cylinder at that time...I'll try to get a picture of how it looks now up here in the next couple days...

I agree that this isn't the easiest project but I'm learning a lot and the gun will surely be mine when I get done...

[Flint]

I found it easier, and a heck of a lot cooler working to rough the port out with a medium cut rat tail file.  When I got close with the smoothest rat tail I had, I switched to the Dremel drum for finishing.

Be sure to wrap the frame with masking tape to protect it from the file at the far end of your stroke.

Try it on your next conversion.

[Rolinda Renegade]

I cut my frame out with an air powered Die Grinder and a carbide burr.  As long as you went slow and let the tool work and didnt push to hard it cut really smooth and didnt seem to heat up the frame all that much.   I had both pistols cut in about 4 hours.  I thought that would be the hard part.  lol    Then I started the rest of the conversion.  Woooo

[Flinch Morningwood]

I just did the second one this weekend and you're right, cutting the channel was the easiest part.

I had to adjust the hand and the bolt to get the thing to work.

The hand had to shortened and it was lucky I had a spare as the original that came with the pistol was too thin as well as too long...seems the factory had ground it thinner for some reason...then the replacement hand pivot rod was .002 larger than the hole in the trigger.  After trying the hand from my first pistol, I realized it was the hole and not the new hand - so I had to grind the hole a WEE bit.

With the new firing pin pushing the trigger back a bit from where it would have rested in percussion mode, I had to grind a little off the back of the bolt so it would engage the trigger when letting down the hammer manually.  I am sure it would have engage when firing (the trigger would have driven forward far enough). 

On the bright side, I can now disassemble and re-assemble a colt 1851 in about 3 minutes. 

[Rolinda Renegade]

Oh man That is funny     I have the unique ability to tear down and build a 51 Navy pretty quick myself.  lol    Hey Little Al you said the back of the Bolt is what you had to adjust as well??    Is that the same conversation as the bolt that we hashed out?     so I should shorten the piece and not cut the bottom side of it  Correct?


Thanks Little Al


Rolinda Renegade