38 extra long colt ?????

[Paatz]

Cutts: You wrote in a post that you shot 38 extra long colts. Could you explain more as I'm a little new to CAS, and think I maybe reinvention the wheel.  Also what rifle are you using this round in, and how well does it feed.  Many thanks in advance.   Paatz

[Fox Creek Kid]

I think he meant .38 Special and that's just his way of "Old Westernizing" the round much like Dick Dastardly calls a .44 Magnum the .44 Russian Extra Long if I remember correctly. Cuts & Dick are both very old and prone to exaggerating lengths. 

[Dr. Bob]

Fox Creek Kid,

You have been known to exaggerate one in a while, yer self!   You and he were grand posse pards at Coyote Gulch!!  Gotta get my ammo loaded for the Nationals.  Let's see primer, powder, bullet!

[Delmonico]

"An Old Man ain't always smarter, but an Old Man is generally wise."

Waddie Mitchell 

[Cuts Crooked]

Yup! I z'agerate oncet inna while!

But Foxy is correct the "38 extra long Colt" is really the .38 special. Sometimes refered too as 38-20. 

And then there are times when I load up sum 38-22 with BP. (.357 mag) 

[Dick Dastardly]

Gettn'  'em 38 extra long Colt cartridges to feed in a .357 Magnum (38 Ultra Long Colt) rifle sometimes takes a longer bullet.  The Snakebite Greasewagon was specifically developed by ol Snakebite, himself, for just this mission.  When loaded in 38 Special (38 Extra Long Colt) brass, the Snakebite Greasewagon boolit gives .357 Magnum OAL to 38 special ammo.  Thus cheep 38 Special range brass makes a fine .357 Magnum length cartridge when teamed up with the Big Lube™ Snakebite boolit.

Mason Stillwell and Springfield Slim both sell readymade Snakebite cast boolits.  I sell only molds and right now I'm out of Snakebites but have more on order.

DD-DLoS

[Paatz]

Thanks to all for your anwers.  My question was a little dumb, but what do you want 1 1/2 hours after bed time.  It did dawn on me at 3:30 wakeup call that Cuts was making a funny, and I miss it. ( I miss alot of thing car keys, my hat & gloves, and anything not tied down.) 

If a snakebit bullet in a 38 special case will feed thought a win 73 357mag.  Is there a safe crimping spot, so OAL can be shorten to feed thought a win 66 38 speical, or do you just change cases to Star Line 38 long colt's.  I will have to make a decision soon so as which rifle to buy. 

[Cuts Crooked]

If a snakebit bullet in a 38 special case will feed thought a win 73 357mag.  Is there a safe crimping spot, so OAL can be shorten to feed thought a win 66 38 speical, or do you just change cases to Star Line 38 long colt's.  I will have to make a decision soon so as which rifle to buy. 

The Snakebite boolit can be loaded "short" in a 38 Special case, simply by seating down past the crimp groove a bit, to make it the same overall length as a normal 38 Special round. You do need to put a good solid crimp on it when you do this. I've done the same sort of thing when I've loaded the Snakebite in .357 Mag cases. The boolit is too long for use in .357 case when crimped in the lube groove, but works fine when seated deper. So it will work the same in 38 Specials.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

let me see ...
 
So, if I wanna load for max power and   smoke in a 38 (really 35) caliber, I'll have to load up some 38 Ultra EXTRA Long Colt rounds, right?  (Some would call it the .357 Maximum and Ruger makes a SA Blackhawk or perhaps it's on a Super Blackhawk frame for it.  )

[Arcey]

Doan know 'bout that caliber, Steel Hoss ole hoss.  Size mine ta .358.  L'il closer ta .36 thin .35.

[Delmonico]

Steel Horse, those were in the early 80's and had a longer frame and cylinder, they don't make em no more cause the erode the back straps.

[Marshal harpoluke]

 


Uses Em in My Colts and Winchesters  38-24(357)158gr  23&1/2 gr of fff Holy Black.


heh, Heh, HEH!


Dem Snakebites do just fine.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Doan know 'bout that caliber, Steel Hoss ole hoss.  Size mine ta .358.  L'il closer ta .36 thin .35.

Howdy, Arcey pard!

I hear ya.  Back in my school daze, they taught us how to round up or down.  Like you wuz.  However, TO ME I prefer ta think (a dangerous thing for ME to do  ) that unless a .357 caliber pistola is ack-shully .360" to .369", it's still 35 caliber.  I know, I know:  it's jes me.    Don't git me started on them-there new-fangled auto-matical type self loadin' pistols that are sized like the candy:  M & M 

       

[Plowboy]

If y'all don't mind answering a greenhorn question, I'm just getting into CAS, shot my first match last Saturday. I'm shooting .38's, ah I mean .38 XLC's and was thinking about what would make a good BP load. I got a passle of .38XLC cases and a Rossi '92 that will even feed semi-wads, doesn't seem to care that they're not .357 length.
Much Obliged,
Plowboy   

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Mine takes about 18 - 18.5 gr of GOEX3F.  I use the RCBS 38-140 CM

What you have to do is measure the depth the bullet fits in the case.  Fill the case ( measure by volume with a LEE scoop or other dipper, (I cut off, or find an empty case, to measure the right amount) so there is a bit of compression when the bullet is seated.  I use 24 inch long copper pipe as a drop tube (funnel in the top, and a copper reducing fitting in the bottom, attach with brackets to the shelves above your workbench. 

There is no right amount of powder, except what fits when you folllow these procedures. 

For pistol size bullets at CAS stage ranges, (close - VERY close!) there is no need for cards or any other wads, but they do no harm, just no measureable good. 

You will have to use a BP compatible lube, like SPG, or Lyman Black Powder GOLD.  Some folks make their own, but keep that for later.

Welcome to the Darkside.  Look around these forums for other tips, and variations (some clone powders don't quite follow the rules exactly, especially with lube compatibility or compression.) Check out cleaning tips, and case cleaning procedures.

[Arcey]

For pistol size bullets at CAS stage ranges, (close - VERY close!) there is no need for cards or any other wads, but they do no harm, just no measureable good. 

Respectfully disagree, in part.

Without a fiber wad, my 24" Marlin CB will hard foul approximately two inches from the muzzle.  With a wad there is no hard fouling.

While I can't prove it is the result of using a wad, I can say I have no fouling problems with my 20" Marlin CS.  I've always used fiber wads in loads for that because of the Micro-Groove rifling and the theory that particular style of rifling won't handle Black Powder.  I've gone clean in more than one shoot with the CS without cleaning between stages.  In light of that I believe I'm safe in saying accuracy, as it applies to CAS, is quite satisfactory.

The bullets are Lyman 358665s lubed with SPG, both the lube groove and crimp groove, and seated in .357 Magnum cases to an OAL of an inch and a half.  They're crimped with a Lee factory crimp die above the crimp groove.  With that tool one crimps them where one wants.

In my case, the use of wads does have measurable value, or 'good'.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Arcey;  I yield to your superior experience with marlin microgroove barrels.  I have a re-lined '73 in .44-40, an 1866 Uberti Carbine in .38Sp., and my son now has my Browning BLR in .44 Russian Extra Long.  BP ammo has not presented any substantial problems; - Yet!

Plowboy;  See how much FUN we are having!  Try it both with and without a wad, and see what works for you.

PS;  By no difference due to wads, I was thinking mainly of accuracy.  Arcey, you are right to think of the fouling issue.