OAL project

[Crazeyiven]

Two Flints-

I was wondering if you can help or give me some suggestions.  I have taken your advice from the last post in "Modified Lee Moulds...."

I have, for the last week – 10 days, been searching this and the NSSA site, for OAL information, with an emphasis on 56-50.  I have created a database to try to see if I can find a correlation between specific bullets and the overall length of the ctg as related to a specific Spencer –Armi, original, Romano, etc.

I have found enough correlation, in a very small data group, to encourage me to continue this project.  Key items that I am looking for are:  specific bullet; OAL; in which rifle the ctg is being used.  "Also would nice"  information includes:  bullet # - mfgr; comments about the bullet; bullet wt; brass being used; feed comments (excellent, good, ok, acceptable, etc).  I am keeping track of who, which site the info came from and the topic where the information came from.

I have search under:  OAL, bullet length, cartridge length, length of bullet and overall length.  Best results came from OAL and searches with "length".  Below are the results that I found that gave at least the basic three (some of the topic names have been shortened to fit better in the table).  Some had more.  Found several with the OAL indicated, but, without the specific bullet and to a lesser degree the type of rifle I did not include them or use the data.

Source                 Location          Topic
Trooper Lennox        SSS             Smokless Loads for 56-50
French Jack              SSS             Modified Lee Moulds, 450 or 500 - Bullet
French Jack              SSS             Modified Lee Moulds, 450 or 500 - Bullet
Hell-Er-Highwater       SSS             Length of cartridge
Tualuman Lawman     SSS             Length of cartridge
Spencer Sporter        SSS             Spencer Magazine Feed comparison
Fox Creek Kid            SSS             Spencer Magazine Feed comparison
Mike w/34th             N-SSA          Spencer Load Information - Please Post What
J. Wimbish, #10395   N-SSA          Romano Spencer
J. Wimbish, #10395   N-SSA         Romano Spencer
EWJohanen              N-SSA         Romano Spencer
EWJohanen              N-SSA         Romano Spencer
Atlanta_Gray             N-SSA         Reproduction Spencer Carbines
Hoot 3rd GA             N-SSA         Spencer Load Information - Please Post What

Any suggestion on how to collect more of this information?  I do not think a poll would lend itself to this as there are several variables.

I have read all over this site and maybe even more from the NSSA site the cartridge OAL is critical.  The catch is that the numbers are very inconsistent.  As an example, the same poster on the NSSA site gave three totally different "ideal" OAL in 4 different posts (I read all his posts).  Those readings ran from 1.50 to 1.70.  Little other data was given but to expound on the importance of OAL.

My assumption is that, for a given rifle mfgr (maybe even importer or batch), and a given bullet there, is a very small range of OAL that falls into the "sweet spot" for that mfgr.  Looking through the ROY MARCOT book,
Spencer Repeating Firearms, there was a huge volume of ammo available from blanks to shotshells, all with a bit different oal and all with a different nose shape-some even flat.  Also, considering wartime mfg (and tolerances) and that 2 different companies were making them (and Springfield Armory was working on them too) this bullet feed issue has to be tied to the nose, shape and length of the ctg (nothing that has not been stated here before). 

What I am going to try to do is get a correlation by specific bullet and an overall length range (much narrower that 1.5 to 1.70) to give folks, especially new folks, to try.  I am thinking of a very condensed list...say... if you are shooting this rifle, this bullet, using this brass, then try this OAL.  Again, suggestions helpful.

My issue, in the end, seems to be OAL.  I have tried OALs from 1.5 to 1.7 with various bullets, but, not with the same bullet through the range in very small incrments.  I did this with the Lyman bullet the other day.  I think I am going to find that this will resolve my problems.  I am hoping this project will save a lot of folks, especially new folks, a lot of time and a lot of fustration!

Anyway, sorry so long.  Any help appreciated.

Thanks,

David

[Crazeyiven]

Was re-reading the first post and decided I would do a summary.

What I am looking for is the following:

*  Rifle being used (Armi Taylor, Armi Cimmeron, Romano, Original, etc)
*  Bullet being used / bullet number
*  OAL (with a caliper, at least x.xx")
*  Bullet weight
*  Brass
*  How you would rate feeding

The first three are the most important.  The others will give more data to compare.

I expect to find my OAL before this is done, but, I would like to complete this project to help new folks and others that may be needing help, or, maybe to help someone that wants to try a different bullet.

The more data, the better the results.  Also, I am not limiting this to 56-50 only.  If I can get enough data on 56-56 I will include it too.

I think, for each of these, if we can get at least 10 entries for the same gun mfgr and the same bullet we will be able to draw some conclusions.  I would not be suprised to see a difference in OAL between the mfgr, perhaps even between production runs.  The more data we can get, the closer we can get the numbers.

If someone is hesitant to put this information on the board for some reason, please feel free to send a PM or e-mail me.  When I am done with this, assuming we get enough info to be meaningful, I will be happy to share it all.

Think posting this on the N-SSA site would be profitable?

Thanks to all-

David

[Appalachian Ed]

Here you go...

Romano 1860 Rifle
Romano Custom mould round nose flat point
1.590 OAL
307 gr. cast 19-1 Linotype to Pure Lead
50-70 case cut down with a bevel turned on the rim
Feeds great

Hope this helps.

[Crazeyiven]

Appalachian Ed-

Absolutely!

Thanks,

David

[Drydock]

-Cimmeron/Armi Sport 56-50 Carbine
-Dakota Widowmaker modified Lee mold (515-500-F), .515 unsized, 350 grains, cast from chilled shot.
-Starline/Buffalo arms brass
-OAL 1.550"

At this length the round feeds smoothly, with no damage to the bullet nose.  I've found this combonation likes to be a little shorter than the usual 1.590".

[Fox Creek Kid]

Sarge, I found I could get about 42 - 43 gr. FFg drop tubed into a Starline case with the DW bullet and man they hit steel hard!!    Too hard for close targets. Makes people nervous. 

[Crazeyiven]

Sgt. Drydock-

Thank you very much for taking the time and for the information.

I have been somewhat suprised at the variety of bullets that are in use.  I expected to see a lot more of the DW bullets and, due to availability and cost, the Lyman.  No wonder the OAL varies so much.  Hope this will produce some useful information for everyone.  Might even help if someone wants to experiments with other bullets.

Again, thanks.  Have a good Holiday!

David