First time poster: question regarding FTF on my Uberti 1860 Henry

[tteng]

Howdy all.  Took me awhile to find a forum dedicated to the Henry rifles, and I'm glad to be here.  I must say- my 44-40 Henry is almost too pretty to shoot (was the original Henry as pretty as the modern repros?).  Anyway, I have a question.

I reload my fired Winchester brass w/ .429 plated-bullet(from Berry) in front of 8gr Unique and Winchester LP primer, and I need to recock the hammer 50% of the time to have it go off.  With brand new ammo, I have this problem maybe 2 out of 50rds.  Has this happen to you before, what can be the cause(s), and how do you fix it?

[Dusty Morningwood]

The rifle is trying to tell you it wants a lead bullet and black powder.  I am almost certain that is the problem! 

[Marshal Deadwood]

This might work,,,Federal primers are much softer,,and will fire when say,,CCI wont. Dont know about Winchester primers,,but ya might try Federals. I like them for realiable ingniton in guns with lite mainsprings.

Marshal Deadwood

[litl rooster]

$2 to a donut it's the Win primers.............   Then what Dusty said, maybe the other answer....Mine barks when it goes BOOM

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

I third the motion.  Scrap the WW primers.  I use CCI, which are softer than WW, but not as soft as Federal.  With my SPencer that had an inertial firing pin, I could not use the WW primers reliably. Both Federal and CCI work perfect.

You may also check your main spring screw and see if it is tight.  Some folks loosen the screw a might to lessen the hammer fall and lighten the trigger pull.

[Flint]

Never heard anyone say Winchester primers were harder than CCI before, and in my experience, they aren't, but I could be wrong.  I have an Uberti 60 Henry, two 66's and a 73, ranging in age from 30 years to almost new, and all of them fire Winchester primed cases every time, and always have.

I suggest opening up the bolt and cleaning out any grease or preservatives in the firing pin channel, and check the hammer travel for rough spots or sluggishness.  As Tuolumne said, make sure the mainspring is tight.

I only ever used CCI primers for centerfire rifles like the 30'06 and pistols like the M1911, which hit the primers hard.  Lightened mainsprings require at least WW or if really light, Federal primers.

[litl rooster]

  Flint, I read some where in another forum.  It takes around 16 pounds pressure to fire a primer. My Henrys has not been lighten( as far as trigger and hammer tensions go) and generally will set off anything I can chamber.  However 2 or 3 have not and they were Win primers.  Now I can't say the same for any of the other weapons my wife and I use.  To many times have we had FTF's with Win primers. Many of these CAS guns have had the actions lighten and will Fail To Fire. Before Sundays match began a group of us had this same conversation. The very first shooter experianced this problem. By firing them twice he was able to fire some of them. Some were barely dimpled. His guns were lighten and were for being  fast.
  I can't tell you how soft or hard CCI primers are since I have and never used them, simply because I never cared for their Caps on C&B's. I do use Fed large pistols.  I can't recall the same problem with Win small pistl primers or their 209 shotshell primers, and still use them. 

   I can only pass on what I have experianced and what I have observed, feel free to use what ever type one feels is best.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Most guns come from the factory with hammer springs that are strong enough to be used as Mack truck suspension springs. They are deliberately made strong enough to reliably fire any brand of primer. It is very unusual to come across a gun that is still in factory condition and will not reliably fire any brand of primer. You do not mention if your Henry has been slicked up at all or not. Once you start lightening hammer springs for faster actions, then you are starting down the road to possible FTFs. You should be setting off factory ammo with 100% reliability if the gun is factory spec.

Since the prolbem is more severe with your reloads, I would look at the reloads themselves as the prime suspect. Are your primers fully seated? A high primer can seat itself fully as the firing pin first strikes it, absorbing some of the force of the blow. In marginal cases, this can be enough to lead to FTFs. Be sure your primers are fully seated. They should be flush with, or a few thousandths sub flush of the case head.

The next suspect to reliability is friction in the action, or anything that prevents the firing pin from doing its job efficiently. Remove your firing pin, and be sure there is no built up crud or fouling in its passage way through the bolt. You might want to lightly polish the surface of the firing pin while you are at it, to slick it up a bit. Just a very light polishing. Frankly, I do not recommend messing with the firing pin return spring. You need it to continue doing its job of retracting the firing pin, even though the firing pin has to overcome the spring on its way to the primer. Be sure the hammer spring is snugged down tight so the spring can deliver its maximum effort.

That's really about it. There are a couple of tricks you can do to the firing pin, but now we're starting to talk about a 'race gun', and I really don't want to go there.

When I had Happy Trails do a complete action job on my Henry, he lightened the hammer spring, as well as performing a bunch of other tricks. The Henry does not come with a strain screw for the hammer spring, like there is on a '73. I had Hap install a strain screw on my Henry, so that in case the hammer spring was a tad too light I could tweak it. I've only used my Henry in 3 matches so far since the action job, and on Sunday I had a couple of Failures to Fire. So I need to turn in my strain screw 1/8 turn or so to increase my reliability. But my Henry is pushing the envelope of reliabilty with its light springs. On a stock Henry this should not be a problem.

I can't imagine a stock Henry with a stock hammer spring giving failures to fire. It might be traceable to your primers, and as was said, be sure your hammer spring is snugged down tight.

Other than that, Federal primers may be the answer. They are easier to set of than Winchester. I have a Colt with a very light hammer spring and it gets a little bit fussy about Winchester primers, but it always sets off Federals. But a factory stock gun should be able to light off commercial ammo 100% of the time.

[Will Ketchum]

I only use CCI primers since I prime by hand with a Lee Auto Prime and Richard Lee, the owner of Lee Precision, recommends.  He warns against using Federal primers in his hand primer so I don't.  The only exception is the large magnum primers I use in my Long Range 45-70 loads.  Then I wear an extra face shield and only have a dozen primers in the magazine at a time.

I hand prime, even though I do all my CAS reloading on a Dillon 550B .  Why? many ask.  I just don't like priming on a press ever since I had a primer tube detonation the very first time a loaded on my Rockchucker .  When I first got the 550B I primed on it for a couple of years but had some high primers and even a few where I failed to get the old primer out.  I think I was too timid with the stroke.  Now I start on the Dillon with primed cases and I'm a happy camper

Will Ketchum

[Coffinmaker]

Lots of guesses and discussion about the relative merits of primers, and springs, which may not relate to the actual problem at all.  First to be determined is the head space on the rifle.  Uberti large bore rifles are noted for bad head space.  Too much head space and it may not set off any primer,  of brand.
With feeler gages first determine the gap between the face of the Breach Block and the cartridge head, closed up in the breach end of the barrel.  Optimum head space is .004, +/- .001  Most rifles will operate just fine with much more head space because of the main spring.  Anything over .012 and your starting to get into trouble, even with a stock main spring, and with a reduced main spring, lots of "no bang."
There is no inexpensive way to correct the head space.  First step is to determine the head space and then discuss options.  If the head space is excessive, NOTHING will correct the problem except fixing the head space first.

Coffinmaker

[Cyrille]

I used WW primers when I first started to reload but found them to be the opposite of what the others have posted, too sensitive! I switched to Federal LPs and am very pleased with them in both my revolvers and .45 caliber rifles. I use CCIs LRs with my 45/70.

[Mako]

Cyrille,
I have to agree about Winchester primers not being the culprit.  I have two "improved" Henrys (1866s) and I have aftermarket light springs in both and they never fail to set off a winchester primer.  I have a pard'ner in our club who was getting light strikes on his and it was from buildup in the firing pin hole.  Sometimes it's the simple things that cause the most problem.

Several others have mentioned other potential problems the list could include the following:

• Too short of a firing pin
• A fouled firing pin
• A rough or bent firing pin extension
• A broken Firing Pin Stop Pin (which holds the firing pin extension in place).  If it is broken it will still retain the extension but it creates interference perhaps as friction or just parts that have to be moved into a position to allow the extension to move forward as the hammer strikes it.  This was a problem at one time and Uberti increased the diameter of the pin by .02" to address it.  It could still happen with a larger pin.  Also note the same problem can happen with too short of a pin, one that does not bear on both sides of the Breech Bolt. It acts like a broken pin robbing inertia from the firing pin extension as it moves forward.
• A hammer that rubs excessively to the point of scrubbing off momentum as it falls
• A too light of a hammer spring
• A hammer spring that is sitting so it rubs the side of the receiver slot it fits in
• A short chamber
• Insufficiently resized ammo (if it is .44 WCF then the shoulder has to be set back correctly)
• Bullets seated so they engage the rifling (This almost always is the result of a badly reamed chamber. Any .44 WCF cartridge that will cycle in the carrier should not be too long)
• Bullets seated so they bulge the neck and hold the cartridge to the rear but allow it to move forward upon the firing pin striking the primer and absorbing some of the force of the blow.
• Collapsed shoulders on a reloaded .44 WCF which cause the same condition as above.

I'm sure others could add more to the list.

Regards,
Mako