Uberti forged frame 1858s and Kirst Konverters (UPDATE see post)

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy to the camp,

If you have a Uberti forged frame, you will notice that the opening in the frame is about 1/16" larger than the old Uberti cast frame 1858s.  The cylinders are the same as the old ones, and the barrel alignment is the same distance from the center of the cylinder axis as the old ones.  This larger opening is to allow them to use the same frame for the cartridge conversions, which have a larger diameter cylinder and correspondingly higher set barrel centered on the firing chamber bore of the larger  cylinder.

This does not effect R&D conversions, but does effect the Kirst Konverter, as it allows too much play in the non-rotating recoils shield.  NOT TO FEAR!  I have been working with Walt, and we have come up with some ideas on a modification where you will be able to use Uberti cylinders with either old or new.  He has my forged frame as we speak, and the work up for the modification is in progress.

I will keep you posted.

[John E. Ringo]

Actually, I've noticed the same problem with the stock C&B cylinders. The bolt doesn't rise far enough into the notches. As a result, the cylinders are looser than the cylinders on the cast frame guns. On the one I handled, the bolt was only rising about halfway into the notches.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

On mine, the bolt is a tad longer than on the cast frame one I had.  It fits well.  Interesting note:  Some of the smaller cast frame guns from Uberti have higher serial numbers than the forged framed ones.  Serial number is not a safe way to tell whether it is cast or forged.  Walt has one that someone bought as a forged, but checked due to smaller frame size and found it was cast.

[Marshal Deadwood]

Which frame size most duplicates the original Remington dimensions ? And,  does the forged frame have better..umm,,,quality?? than the cast frame ?

I see on Taylors that they have the forged frame,,then,,,,steel frame and case hardened frame.  Are the steel and case hardened frame both cast ?

Were one to order from Taylors, what would you ask to insure they picked the frame of your desires ?

Thanks pards,

Marshal Deadwood

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Howdy,

The forged frame are nicer guns (IMHO and in Walt Kirst's too).  Unfortunately, serial number is not a good way to determine whether cast or forged. Sme cast have higher serial numbers are higher than forged.  Forged always have a cylinder opening of around 1.718 (+ or -) inch, and cast Uberti's frames are 1.6-something inch.

As far as which duplicates the original size, I have no idea.  I owned an original awhile back, and shot it regularly.  Unfortunately I had no replicas at the time to compare it to.  An expert like Halfway Creek Charlie would probably know, though!

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Hey, Hey, Hey,!

EXPERT= Has Been Drip Under Pressure...I resemble that remark! I'm no expert, I just do a lot of research.

Ok here goes I would guess that the dimension in question is floor of cylinder window to roof of said window? If that is correct here is what I have on my 3 originals.

1. 92,XXX s/n range Armory conversion = Window Height 1.641 measured in the center which is higher than the floor edges.
    Rear wall of window to breech = 2.100
2. 75,XXX s/n range Gunsmith conversion = Window Height 1.690 measured the same way it's edges were lower also
    Rear wall of window to breech = 2.270
3. 25,XXX S/n range Transition NMA C & B = Window Height 1.660 measured the same way, it's edges lower as well.
    Rear wall of window to breech = 2.000 (that's why the R & D conversion cylinder will fit the above pistol, and not the transition model.)
None of my three have a flat window floor or ceiling.

I believe today, as well as in the period, window height  dimension depends largely upon the amount of handwork done to clean up the casting or forging.

Looking at all three I can clearly see that the Transition Model bbl sits further into the frame. it sticks past the cylinder pin housing in the frame by two threads, whereas the other two with NMA bbls and frames breeches are even with the cylinder pin housing. That would explain the difference in the fore and aft dimension.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Got my Kirst Konverter back from Walt yesterday.  It was re fitted for the larger opening of the Forged Frame Uberti 1858.  WORKS LIKE A CHAMP.

If you order one for your Uberti, specify Forged (large openning) or cast.  Some cast frame with small opennings are in the forged-erial number range.  Best to measure.  Large is about 1.71 + or -, and cast is 1.65 ish.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

That looks good. Is it gated?

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Nope, its un-gated.  Wanted to keep the .44 NMA stock for my Civil War re-enacting,  I'm in a Cavaalry unit.  se it with an 1863  Sharps, 1860 Spencer, and now Smith carbines.

The Kirst non-gated assembly goes in much easier than the R&D in the forged frame.  The larger openning makes it a little slower to line up the R&D, where the Kirst pops in and out like a dream.  I really love it!

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks. I was curious. The Kirst does go in quicker on mine, too, but I like the R&D for the removable one. I really couldn't say which one I like best.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

SHot the Uberti Forged frame with the Kirst Konverter last night with Black Hills Schofield (no BP loaded right now).  Shot like a dream.  All primer hits were positive and dead center.  The removable fixed recoil plate with the single firing pin works awesome!

Cans and rocks within 25 yards didn't have a chance<g>